Discus food and supplies

Discussion in 'Feeding and Nutrition' started by Neresh, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Neresh

    Neresh

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    Hey there Proffessor. I have a problem in that every couple of months, one of my Discus just stops eating and thins away. I can feed him bloodworm and he eats this for a while but eventually stops eating completly. Other fish are generally healthy, although they dont grow to any ood size. There are no external signs of parasites, so I have been advised that it is due to internal 'worms'.

    I currently have this problem and have tried the ffg. Added Epsom salt to the water to induce an appetite. Today I added Biltrizide (about a quarter tab to a 4 ft tnk).Also added good oxygen supply. Do you think that the fish will start to eat again ?

    Please can you also advise if you have a local ( Durban) supplier for your Discus food, including your Garlic flakes ? or can i buy direct from you ?
    Would also appreciate any good breeders/suppliers in KZN for quality Discus.

    Thanking You,

    Dookie
     
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  3. TankMaster

    TankMaster Apistogramma

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    Hey Neresh . . .cut back on the Bloodworms. And Gavin might stock the food. You wont get a reply here until the week end so just hang tight. Maybe @Marco can advise you.

    You need to vary your discus diet. . .from what you told me you don't feed much variety. . .

    Try some discus recipes and read the professors thread on discus meals.

    When you came over to my house, you didn't ask me anything about the discus care. You just wanted contacts for breeders and to see if I have my discus for sale.Your tank is too small for any more discus. You need at least 75L per Discus. I advised that you change your filtration. 700L/h built in hood filters are not going to be good enough for that 300L tank. Concentrate on keeping the discus you have now alive until you can say for yourself that you are ready to get more.

    Turn up the heat to at least 30*C - 32*C . . .

    The professors food has been given high praise on these forums and his discus advice, the same.

    Just check with Marco. He helped me a lot when I got into Discus.

    Just my 2c bro

    TM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  4. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi Neresh. Normally healthy Discus are very good eaters so if he/she has stopped eating, then you are right, something is wrong. What I would like to know is if there is white slimy poop coming from this Discus. This is normally the problem. It is not worms or parasites, but rather a flagellate intestinal infection. These flagellates are ever present in most Discus and normally have an effect when the fish is bullied or when water quality is neglected. The fish will stop eating and develop what is called 'razor back', where they become extremely thin. Eventually they die. You can treat this for a start with 14mg Metrozinadole per liter of water, after 3 days do a 50% w/c, wait 5 days and repeat the treatment. This normally sorts it out. Try and see if this fish is being bullied cause its important that he be made feel superior if possible. Bloodworm helps as it gets the intestines working, but I have actually found that live Daphnia is a better option as the fish will find it hard to resist, and it contains good roughage. Like TM said, raise the temp to I'd say about 31'C as this will also help in stimulating appetite. Dont add any Epsom salt again! I think at this stage that just makes the problem worse. Metrozinadole you can buy in tablet form from the chemist. Crush the tablet and dissolve it in water. Then just evenly spread this out across the tank. Hope you get him sorted out. Regards, Marco
     
  5. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    O, and just to add to that, a varied well balanced Diet is crucial for Discus. There is NO way you can hope to have healthy Discus even if everything else is perfect. Like TM said, read Prof. Dirk's sticky note on Discus nutrition. It is vital that they get all the vitamins they need, especially Vit. C which, when in shortage adds to Flagellate problems
     
  6. TankMaster

    TankMaster Apistogramma

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    Hey marco . . .could the bloodworms have made this problem even more acute?

    Campcon is known for it's parasitic traces . . .

    He feeds bloodworm all the time so I guess this could have made the problem worse because of the lack of nutrients which resulted in a weak immune system. If this fish was placed in a properly filtered tank (1500L/h), and fed a variety of foods. . .this could have been prevented . .

    Home made recipes for discus are probably the best way to feed in conjunction with some of the Professors foods. These fish are like babies. You have to feed them well for them to grow healthy . . .

    You wont feed a baby rice all it's life . . .there's not much nutritional value.

    Is there such a thing like too much roughage?

    TM
     
  7. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi TM. Feeding only, or mostly bloodworm to Discus will definitely cause this. Discus are large and require a great deal of Vitamins. These are just not present in bloodworms. I feed bloodworm no more than twice a week, and have lately relied on it even less since I get live Daphnia twice a week. As far as homemade food mixes go, there are some ppl who go this route, I'm not one of them. Prof. Dirk's beefheart, SV2000, is imported from Germany where large Discus breeders have a vested interest in the research of the mix. My fish love it and condition wise it makes a visible difference. I never experienced infestations from feeding frozen foods. Possible I'm sure, but that brand specifically I dont like because of the poor quality. It smells terrible! Rgds, Marco
     
  8. OP
    Neresh

    Neresh

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    Dear Marco. Thank you v much for you indepth advice, but havign hell etting Metrozinodole wihtout a script, but will keep trying.
    I currently have them on Biltrizide (half a tab to a 4 foot quarantine tank). I have them on tetra bits ('pizza') flakes - Do you think Biltrizide will do the trick ?

    Also, what Discus do you have ?
     
  9. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi Neresh. Biltrizide's active ingredient is Praziquantel. Its effective against intestinal worms and recently the use of it against Gill flukes has also been professed. Did you see at all if your fish are passing white slimy poop? It normally trails behind it and struggles to break off. If yes, then you need Metro. Vets can also help you with getting it. I get it from a chemist, had to tell the whole story and bring pictures of the fish, but now I have no problem getting it. I have Red turq, Blue Diamond and snakeskin discus. Latest addition is an Ica Red. You must also try to get in touch with Prof. for some of his food, its really good! That diet you have them on is not going to get you them happy. Rgds, Marco
     
  10. OP
    Neresh

    Neresh

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    Thanx Marco. I am trying to get a reply with Prof and as soon as I find a local supplier i will do that. Yes, the fish are displaying all the systems you mentioned, as well as that white slimy poop. I have tried my Vet and it is looking a little positive.

    Ps. I do give them a very varied diet, including lots of Discus flakes, pellets etc. but want to go onto Profs stuff when I can get it. I cant be doing too much wrong because I have a breeding pair in my main tank laying eggs all the time- just dont have the time to breed them.

    PSS. I see that you have four discus, in how big a tank ? I have a couple a fish that havnt qquite reached a good size - say 8cm How do you get them to grow fast and big ?

    PS. Give me your email address so we can exchange pics.
     
  11. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi Naresh. I should update my profile. . I have a young pair of Red ss male x ordinary snakeskin female in a std 4 foot, a Red turq female x SS male and a blue diamomd pair, and then another 8 at varying ages and sizes. I'm only giving attention as far as breeding to one pair, the others are simply too young. I find, and others may or may not agree that Discus grow in pulses. In a month they can double in size and then be still for a while, I presume for the intestinal works to catch up and grow, and then they quickly double in size again. I actually read an interview held with Jack Wattley at the Duisberg show yesterday, in which he states that to grow big Discus you need -a stable ph, good warm temperature (29'C), lots of high quality food fed 6 times a day, and water changes with correct water. So that sounds about right. . .
     
  12. TankMaster

    TankMaster Apistogramma

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    Discus shall not live on pellets and flakes alone but by delicious beef heart that is provided from the hand of the butcher . . .

    Adopted from the Discus bible.
     
  13. OP
    Neresh

    Neresh

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    Hey Marco.

    I am starting Metro treatment today.
    Just to confirm : I require to use 14mg per L.
    Therefore for a four foot tank i calculated : 120cm x 35cm(h) x 40cm (w) = 168 000/ 1000 = 168 l tank.
    I should therefore use : 2352mg ( 14mg x 168 L). Which effectively means 12 x 200mg tabs ?

    Cheers,
     
  14. oosie

    oosie Oosie

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    Hi Marco,
    Sorry to barge in, if possible can you asist me in some queries I have regarding discus....
    Equipment, I have a400l tank, temp at 28, water quality very good, nitrogen cycle working 100%, Bacteria importance understand. Am a Instrument Engineer , so water quality is a speciality.
    On my setup, I have a Canister filter, also Build in hood filter. The tank setup is for severums, which will be moved to another tank. Do I need a uv in-line filter/sterilizer? What do I need to successfull keep Discus. I want to learn how to do it correctly, as my wife gets very attached to the fish, end very emotional when one dies...
    Is there someone out there that have discus problem free....I keep the fish as a hobby, end I am scared that by having fatalities it might put my wife off in keeping fishes.
    Do I rather stay with Severums, or go..for Discus...?
     
  15. OP
    Neresh

    Neresh

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    Stay with Severums ! ha ha - If you gonna keep discus, you have to be prepared to put in a lot of effort into your hobby - I But this is an excellent forum, had I known about it earlier I perhaps would have saved myself a lot of heartache.Believe me keepin discus is very rewarding, although water changes gonna drive u crazy
     
  16. oosie

    oosie Oosie

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    You say very rewarding? I am extreemly happy with my severums, but need a challenge, any comments on the uv thing?
     
  17. OP
    Neresh

    Neresh

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    I am new to this boet,but am also interested to know . . .
     
  18. TankMaster

    TankMaster Apistogramma

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    Try and under-dose if possible . .

    TM
     
  19. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi Neresh,
    Yes you have calculated correctly. It is normally suggested that Metro be used at 5mg per liter, but after consulting with Prof. Dirk recently he concluded that 14mg per liter does the job as these things are getting more and more difficult to get rid of. If you want to you can start with 7mg per liter and see how it goes. Leave it water for three days, 50% water change and filter tank through activated carbon for 5 days, then repeat the dosage. If however this doesnt work you will need to up the dosage to the level I indicated at first.

    Hi Oosie. Welcome to keeping the king of the aquarium. Keeping Discus succesfully, as you wish, is a whole chain of events and conditions you have to meet. Firstly, as you indicated your tank has to be perfect. by that I mean cycled with no ammonia and nitrite spikes to come. Selecting your fish is the second step - and this is where most problems come in. You need to buy from a reputable supplier that you can trust. That is almost as difficult as finding a needle in a haystack. Prof Dirk has some nice fish and they WILL be in excellent condition as he is as near to a perfectionist with his fish as you can get. You dont want to buy infected or stunted fish as this means you start with problems.
    Once you have the fish its really not that difficult as long as you abide by the rules. The rules are - feed them good quality food as often as possible, give them great water conditions, keep things as stable as possible and never ever just introduce new fish to your tank without a quarantine period.
    Good food is not bloodwormand bits all the time, variety is key. You can learn a great deal reading Prof's sticky thread on nutrition. Water at perfect levels is not as important as clean stable water. what I mean is its better to keep Discus in a tank with a ph of 7.5 at 29'C in clean clean water, than to have the ph at 6.5 with high nitrate levels, or low temperature or the other big problem, fluctuating ph levels.
    Discus do offer the advantage in that they "speak" to you. If they start hiding and clamping their fins, something is not right. If they go black you have a big problem. But they always offer you some time to take action. Off-course neglecting to take action WILL result in certain death as once they pass a point of no return, there is nothing you can do to save them.
    As far as a UV sterilizer is concerned - it does offer certain advantages, however note the globe must be changed frequently, and there is some debate that the use lowers the fish's natural ability to fight infections and parasites. This has not been proven though. I would not worry too much about it, and rather foocus on the other important factors. What is vitals to establish routine in Discus maintenance. Know which days you do water changes, and make sure you do it. Do not overstock tanks as this will lead to more frequent water changes. In your tank I would increase the temp to 29'C and you can comfortably keep 6 Discus in there. Any more and your maintenance goes up and the space becomes very cramped for them. Work on at least 50L per fish, preferably 70L though. Food - buy from Prof! Water you seem to have waxed. All that remains is the fish!

    Hope i have helped Oosie

    Regards

    Marco
     
  20. oosie

    oosie Oosie

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    Thank you Marco!!
    Yes I am ready!! This forum is absolutely fantastic!! I am honoured to be part of such a grand setup..
     
  21. OP
    Neresh

    Neresh

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    Marco, you're tha man!
     

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