First Pure ( big spot) Black Diamond SA bred pups!!

It never hurts to start planning so, I will share my plans with everyone/ I intend on starting a new thread for this, will be nice to get input from other members. Also it will give me time to cost this correctly, as a I suspect this is going to cost a bucket load of cash!!!

Sorry @MariaS for the hijack!!! Over and out!!!

 

Sorry for the late reply @David Kusner .. just been a little hectic last couple days

Thank you....
If that's your dream.... go for it!!!
Nah.... she knows you too well by now... she will rather live with the fish craze than other demons

 

Tell you what...
Ask @top dog and @Ravs how to get your wife to take over the ray project and claim them as hers..

You wont even get to chose or name the pup.. you will do water changes and the rays will be hers!!

 

No worries about the :hijack" @David Kusner

I didn't go quiet because I was upset about it... had other things that took over the last few days
Have no problem with you guys chatting away

Costing will work out reasonable if you get the tank privately built and then do as much DIY as you can, which with us, @Cesar is a DIY fanatic so you save a lot there
You also a hands on person from what I have seen so, you will get it done within a reasonable budget
Big thing is, do it right to last long term from the word go
Rays you can add one at a time as you go along but you don't want the project to become a never ending nightmare of upgrades because you skimped on that

 

Like everyone else to say what a wonderful experience and privilege it is. Savour it. She must be a very happy Individual!

 

Thanks @Adam K ..

 

@Whoknows , R13k for that size tank is a reasonable price providing the glass thickness is safe, base is at least double base and the tank is well braced right around top and bottom
I would also expect it includes overflow for the sump

Hahha.. rays are very addictive and you can certainly add more than one at a time

 

the big questions i would be asking:
at 13k is that a delivered in place price, cause you need trolleys, trailers, plenty people and luck to move a tank that size.
in general it cost me about R3000 every time i move a monster
how many large tanks have they built and how long have they been running once built. I can think of 4 tank builders i would trust and 3 there is no way i would let them near the project

 

@Whoknows , @top dog has got a point when it comes to moving the tank which I wasn't really thinking about as I would have thought that they would deliver it for you or alternatively, would build it on site which is what we used to as, James comes and builds where the tank will stay
So no moving costs and no risk and the moving costs you save cover your sump

The sump you can also pick up an old tank even if a bit scratched and just build in the compartments which is fairly easy to do and it goes under so couple scratches wont be noticeable
Stand you don't take chances.. it must hold 4 ton steady..

 

Bracing is very important in tank that size... Im neurotic on bracing

Top, sides and bottom!!
Top across I have 20mm bracing (double)

Not sure why they drilling two holes for overflow.. we have one hole on all tanks even bigger than that
Circulation is key
To ensure filtration is adequate long term, you get the biggest sump you can
You don't have to fill it completely with media straight away, you put enough media that you good for the babies and then you add on as you can
Media for a big sump does add up so I filled mine with what I had and a bit more and then every now and then I bought couple more bags and added until sump was full

 

@Whoknows , James doesn't charge extra to build on site, I think its actually better for him so he doesn't mind

The bracing, sorry if I put it wrong, its double but 10mm double so 20mm bracing

Im comfortably running 10 000l per hour pump on 50mm hole and from what I see, Im sure I could go 12000 but I don't want the turnover to be excessively high and the water not be in contact with the media/bacteria for long enough
Good flow is needed but the flow has to be at a rate that the bacteria has a chance to do its job

What you can do is have a built in filter on the opposite side of the overflow instead of two holes for overflow and the internal filter works like a bomb to pick up whatever doesn't get into the overflow because it has holes from the bottom to the top of the tank so, its sucking in the dirt from all levels of the water column ( if I make sense)
By way, if i may ask, where in Jhb South do you stay? You can pm me if you prefer

 

building on site is the best way to go about it.
build a frame in wood for a tank that size is a bold step, remember wood in SA is very expensive compared to USA so your saving is far smaller.

on filtration (please remember this is my first tank i have set up especially for rays)
my sump is less than 50% full of media at the moment i am doing a 50% water change once a week currently with a 27cm ray in the tank
i am still testing water 3 times a week to ensure i am safe
results before water change are still very good and generally i have a 0 reading for ammonia.
i am getting 15400ltr threw my filter a hour using 2 50mm outlets tank being 1800ltr and sump being 600ltr i am very happy with the threw put and results thus far of filter.
what is most important for me is how quickly tank becomes clean after feeding or when madam does her business. I am using 2 18000ltr wave makes for circulation and a large air pump with a bubble wall in front of my overflow to get rubbish out of my tank witch takes 15-20 minutes. for now i am very satisfied with that but believe upgrade is needed in future.
to give you an idea on waste the rays produce:
i have a 8 foot tank at my workshop that has a stocking of 10 central american cichlids between 43cm and 10cm long average being around 25cm
so it is 10 fish that on average have a larger mass than crumpet my ray, the filter is 350ltr and heavily stocked with media and i only do 2 30% water changes a week to keep it perfect.
so i have ruffly 10 times the fish mass with ruffly the same filtration and 25% less of the water and i only need to 10% more water changes to keep the tanks equally as clean.

hope this helps

 

Thanks for adding on more info and your findings @top dog,

On the wood... you right... good hard wood that will withstand that weight and last, is very expensive in SA so I would definitely price both and compare

Your turn around on filtration is great and should be ample for 3 rays long term once the sump is completely full of media
Im doing 10000l per hour through the sump but, each of my internal filters on the sides is turning 4500l per hour each which is another 9000l per hour
Water changes now are about 70% with the adults and the few other fish

Wave makers in the right place are imperative to lift ray poop off the floor, (as its very heavy) and push everything into the filters
After a heavy feeding on 4 adult rays, 12 clowns, Aro.. my tank looks like a war zone... clears crystal clear in about 10min.
I do think my two internal filters play a big role in how fast the tank clears up as well as the dirt is not only being pushed up into the overflow but also directly across to the filters on each side

Im sure I have a video at feeding time, will check and post latter

@top dog , I am very, very glad you posted this first hand comparison between crumpet's tank and the cichlid tank with all your huge monsters
You have proven beyond doubt, what is very hard sometimes to make people believe..
One ray produces the bioload equivalent to 10 fish of about the same size
I believe it because I live with adult rays but more often than not, people look at you with this doubtful look so.... to have someone like you that brings this up, based on what you experience with your tanks is great and hopefully helps towards convincing those that might be sceptical

Reason being that rays are ... a bit.. 'prehistoric'... their digestive system has not developed much with the evolution of time and thus they have a very basic/primitive digestive system and the food passes through very quickly and all waste is excreted
Im no scientist so this is a basic understanding of their bodies in my own words
Maybe @SalmonAfrica would like to add a more professional explanation than mine.


On filtration, I might add that how you place and manage your mechanical filtration / batting .. wool.. plays a very big role as well, as by being strict with it, it keeps your sump cleaner and your bacteria thriving for a long time instead of your sump getting clogged up with dirt quickly

 

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!