Ich in the 180L

Discussion in 'Diseases' started by A new day, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. OP
    A new day

    A new day

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    Just found another oto dead and another one not looking good. Thinking they might be sensitive to the meds, puple-ish discoloration around the gills, throat etc. there are supposed to be 2 more otos that I can’t find.

    Just did a 30% wc to try and dilute the meds, with a gravel vac (difficult in a planted tank).

    I worked out the Paraguard dosage very carefully, and always treat new water with Prime.

    I am supposed to use the Paraguard for 2 weeks, but could I perhaps use a 50% dosage? I haven’t added meds yet today.

    B5D5564B-C1FD-45C8-AE59-3A44F1293C18.jpeg

    B272DC4C-5E34-41A8-998E-1BC8704D0E42.jpeg
     
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  3. Whoknows

    Whoknows

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    When I had ich I used half the does (diffrent meds though) but it did work and the ich was all gone one day after the course was complete. I had to use half since clown loaches are sensitive to meds and I had fry in the tank too.
     
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  4. T. Guppy

    T. Guppy

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    Otos are scale less fish aren't they? So they would be a lot more sensitive to meds and so diluting the meds to50% is probably a good idea..
    Sorry about them dying though. Otos are such cuties, seeing them unwell is very sad
     
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  5. OP
    A new day

    A new day

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    I did a 25% dosage today and added an air stone for what it’s worth
     
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  6. chickenbeef

    chickenbeef

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    Sorry about the losses, I went through this a few months ago when I bought some clown loaches.

    Took 1.5 weeks to get rid of it. I used a combination of salt and half a dose of this medication. Also increased the temp to 28 (gradually) and did daily water changes. Fortunately I didn't lose any fish.

    Good luck! [​IMG]
     
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  7. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    The problem with a lot of store bought meds over and above how expensive it works out, is that some fish are sensitive to some of the meds they use and mix together
    You land up losing fish to the meds thinking it was the sickness
    Although my first choice is salt I have discussed Paraguard at large with some of the Seschem guys and I have used it following their advice with no problems and it does work
    However some strains of Ich can be very resistant and I have found that the salt has given me the best results without affecting sensitive fish
     
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  8. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    Yes you can use half dose
    When I discussed my Ray's and clown loaches with Seachem they told me to use half dose
     
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  9. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    Sorry for the losses @A new day

    With scaleless fish I would do half dose and half dose of salt
     
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  10. David Kusner

    David Kusner

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    Again I 100% agree with @MariaS on this topic. I am not saying that store bought meds is the devil, just that as mentioned some fish can be more sensitive than others and this has always put me off store bought stuff. I can't tell you how many times over the last 20 years alone I would purchase the odd meds here and their, then get home read the instructions and then be scared to use it, use salt instead, forget about the meds, bottle get pushed to the back of the cupboard and a few years later, oh forgot I bought that and tossed it! LoL.

    But having said that seachem do definitely make a superior product and I started to use one or 2 of them this year only, Like SAFE for water changes on the small tanks and Paraguard as a preventative on the QT tank before I introduce any new store bought fish to any other tank in the fish room.

    I also have my first planted community tank ever and although it currently looks like a jungle I would mot want to destroy my plants so would probably never use salt ever again in that tank and would probably use low doses of Paraguard if I needed to or ICH-X.

    I also recently had a chat with my pharmacist and we discussed the availability of antibiotics like arithtomycn and metronidazole and praziquantel. They are all apparently available in SA and a pharmacy would probably sell you 1 o2 tabs or capsules if required if you explain it to them. You just need to know the dosage to water volume etc..and I am sure their are more advanced members on the forum who would have already done this and know the correct dosages. So their are options!

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
     
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  11. mattie

    mattie

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    ottos don't tolerate salt
    continue using the paraguard as prescribed
     
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  12. OP
    A new day

    A new day

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    Would you suggest a daily wc of around 30% and a 25% Paraguard dosage daily? I add the meds 30-60 mins after the wc since Prime and Paraguard both reduce oxygen in the water and Seachem suggests waiting 30 mins or so
     
  13. OP
    A new day

    A new day

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    PS I’ve put a quarantine tank, heater and filter on my shopping list. &@$@
     
  14. Cale24

    Cale24

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    Sorry to hear you're losing fish :( I'd be surprised if its Paraguard but perhaps do some googling with respect to Ottos and meds. Reddit can be pretty useful for finding answers too, although as the guys have said, you'll maybe find an old thread with Seachem support discussing things. Or, write them direct?
    Good luck and hope things come right...
     
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  15. FMN716

    FMN716 Back in the GAME!!!

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    Had the same issue did the following please take into consideration I have apple snails and cories my tank is a 30 Gallon

    Turned up the heat to 27-28
    Added 1 tablespoon per gallon of pure seasalt (do not get the iodated one) - get a small container get some tank water and pix the salt in there then trow it in my snails survived and are happy - obviously this is at your own risk
    Added Seachem Paraguard as recommended
    3 airstones

    3 days later no ich, I did catch it at an early stage thou

    This might not help if ich is at a serious stage then you would need to get stronger meds as Paraguard might not help

    I am gonna add this pic I got from the petshop I am sure it will help

    0190ddfe-aeb5-43a4-bfdf-edd18b1602b8.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  16. Figeth

    Figeth

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    It's perhaps not the best plan but it works for me...
    In my tank if any of the fish look I'll (clamped fins, generally abnormal behaviour) I add some salt, as has been suggested by others. And if it persists, I add a few potassium permanganate crystals. Water goes purple then brown then clear, the fish are generally back to normal once it's clear. Potassium permanganate can kill beneficial bacteria though so I remove my filter media before and put it back after
     
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  17. OP
    A new day

    A new day

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    Got a QT today, a bit late but not too late to avoid / deal with future issues
     
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  18. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    Absolutely right @David Kusner
    If you have a good relationship with your pharmacist and he knows you into the hobby you will get help in supplying you meds you might need
    I have known my pharmacist for 30 years and he has no problem helping
    The same applies to vets if you have a regular vet for your other pets they usually take an interest in the hobby and help you
    Only problem is that you need to do your homework very well as some of the recommended antibiotics on Google nuke your bio filter whilst some are filter safe
    As a matter of interest since we installed the UV light sterilizer in all our tanks 5 years ago you have not had a single outbreak of ick even when adding fish that could not be quarantined
    The UV must run full time
    I do realize there is the first financial outlay but what you save on meds and fish losses makes up for it
     
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  19. OP
    A new day

    A new day

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    Thanks again everyone, it’s been 5 days since I’ve started the meds. Here’s an update.

    Bad news: so far I’ve lost 3 ottos and a very sick diamond tetra. Suppose it could’ve been much worse.

    Good news: The ich hasn’t spread since I started dosing Paraguard, it’s not gone yet but it seems to be on the decline.

    I’ll defs continue for the whole two weeks to hopefully break the life cycle. Because some of my sensitive fish (ottos and khuli) were not coping with the full strength dosage I’ve reduced the dosage and spread it out during the day (broken up into a morning and evening dose). On the Seachem website they say it is fine to (under these circumstances) start with a lower dose and work your way up to a full dose. Paraguard works for 24 hours so I take care to not exceed the recommended daily dosage at any point during 24 hours. At the moment I am on 75% of recommended daily dose and will work up to full dose (half morning and half evening) towards the weekend so that they have a full dose for a week (if the ottos and khuli tolerate it).

    - Some of my platies have a couple of tiny spots and some have clamped fins.
    - The 2 remaining ottos are still alive but very sedentary. At least they don’t have purple throats nor visible ich.
    - Remaining Diamond tetra and rummies still have some spots (less than before) but behaving normally.
    - Danios and the 2 very young SAEs were seemingly never affected and are fine.
    - sterbai cories behave normally but from the start of this they had white fluff on their skins.
    - The khuli had about 3 spots and now none. It struggled with full dosage meds (purple throat) but seems to be coping fine
    - Ive had to move my nerite snails as they stopped moving and one of them dropped from the glass, landing on it’s back. They are sensitive to the meds.
    - Shrimp seem fine.
     
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  20. T. Guppy

    T. Guppy

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    Sorry to hear about your otos and diamond tetra.. That's so unfortunate for them!
    But glad to hear it isn't spreading!!
    Hope it'll go away completely soon!
     
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  21. Whoknows

    Whoknows

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    Glad things are looking up a bit
     
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