May they rot in Hell!

Discussion in 'Fish pics' started by Go-Big, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. Ortaega

    Ortaega Active Member

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    Well as long as there was now manual DNA manipulation from humans, the fish are healthy at all times, they breed with their own species as intended by nature and if there is now way of this ever effecting our natural environment.

    If fish do breed by accident with other species ever in my tank I will Euthanize it and ensure I make the necessary arrangements not to allow this again in the future.

    One can do as much preparations as possible from your side to prevent this, but there are cases were one is unable to sex certain fish, but I do however believe should you ever know the sex of your fish and that is possible for them to cross breed to take the appropriate action.

    I do not feel I'm so experienced in this field to indeed say it is right to breed guppies like that, but if they are the same species with just a color difference and they are not being bred to develop humps on their heads or to change them in any way that can impact their health.

    Its not like trying to get a guppy to breed with a molly for instance.(not even sure if possible, but if being done this is wrong!)

    Dunno, if the above answered you in full.

    Again just my opinion I am not an expert and have only been in the fish keeping game for +/- 2 years . learnt allot and still learning daily.

    Recently started to journey into a planted tank which I will setup this Saturday. Other than that just always looking forward to my next visit to my lfs ;)
     
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  3. BoelderBeestie

    BoelderBeestie Arowana-Discus-Guppy-Oscars-RCS-CRS

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    Cool same as me then. Enjoy the algae. I'm quite the algae growing expert if you need any tips haha.
     
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  4. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    hahaha lets not go down the algae path heheh.. I will beat you!!!
     
  5. dorff

    dorff Active Member

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    If fish are bred purely for the aquarium hobby, then all that should matter is that the animal can enjoy a good quality of life in aquarium conditions. If we were talking about preserving natural genetic lineages, then it would be a completely different story, but that is not the case here. My major problem with selective breeding is the amount of line breeding required to lock in certain traits. This often produces animals that fix bad traits along with desired ones. So when I see a red robin gourami, or a long-fin serpae tetra, or whatever 'fancy' type, it seldom looks in top shape, while in comparison the less showy wild types just look solid. Of all the bred discus types, the Alenquers still are for me the most beautiful, but as long as the fish are healthy, I do not mind other peoples' tastes. And in this sense, I think one should leave room even for hybrids, as long as they don't produce deformed or unhealthy fish. Now, when it comes to goldfish, I am not always comfortable with what is produced. An animal should look at home in its own skin, which shibunkins do, but those poor things with the eye sacs, egg-like bellies and double tails etc., hardly.

    Many wild-caught fish are screened so that only the most colourful ones make it to the trade, but this causes reverse selection for those remaining wild. If populations are small, this could be an issue, as with antelope where trophy hunting is allowed on exceptional males. One only has to look at the difference between a springbuck ram in the Kalahari vs one on a Karoo or Free State farm. In my view, captive-bred fish are better to support if a particular species is prone to this type of pressure. But we often do not know where our fish come from, and how they have been captured or bred. So a 'green label' that certifies responsible trade could be useful, and would be supported by me.
     
  6. Jwh

    Jwh Active Member

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    Don't mention the war
     
  7. Jwh

    Jwh Active Member

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    I must have jinxed this when I revived this thread, was in the east rand today - lots of dyed parrots, tattooed glass fish, and something I haven't seen before, "rainbow widows" - dyed black widow tetras:(
     
  8. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    i suppose as long as people buy... it will only get worse.... For the LFS.... its money...
     
  9. Chris_H

    Chris_H Discus for Life

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    I also saw some dyed parrots at a LFS near me in the past year. I made the staff clear on what my stance is against this ****, and ever since I have never actually bought any fish from a LFS after that again... I was so disgusted. Lucky (or unlucky:p) me discovered discus though and have had the pleasure to import new fish twice, but the last time with @Marco was just a superb experience. That's the great thing about having Discus though, there are so many strains that you don't need to color the fish like this, sure they may have been bread to show other colors but at least the majority of the professional scene strive to breed good quality fish, and the deformed versions of them are very rare (not talking stunted, but bread).
     
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  10. Reedfish

    Reedfish Moderator

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    GM and dyed fish are banned in the UK
     
  11. prajayn

    prajayn Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Went into a petco a few days ago, i am currently in the states. Possibly the most fish ive seen being put into a single tank - crazy.

    Up above is the glo display tank. Marketing was top notch.

    Sorry had to walk out after seeing those other tanks. Don't think I will go into another Petco again.
     
  12. Saturn

    Saturn Active Member

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    I must say I am against fish that has been dyed but Glofish have been genetically modified and as such the parent genes will carry over to the offspring.

    Although this might seem cruel this is our future, we already manipulate genes for crop production and the UK has already consented by allowing scientist to manipulate human embryos, if this will result in babies being born healthy, athletic and with a superior intellect who are we stop human progress. In two generations from now our grandchildren will reap the benefit of this science, and just think with an open mind the possibilities for the preservation of species, this can aid aquatic life. At the moment this is done for cosmetic purposes but in years to come gene manipulation might assist in critical rare species by reproducing more offspring or getting acclimatized to global weather. We cannot even begin to articulate the possibilities that gene modification will bring.
     
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  13. Rainstorm

    Rainstorm Aka Clare

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    Sorry I had to say this @prajayn - that tank looks like someone's been playing Fish Minecraft or something like that :confused:
     
  14. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Can only agree with you @Saturn. Genetic modification is all around us. My brother in law is a farmer and to some extend each new crop he plants is more geneticly altered than the one before, more drought resistant, pest resistant etc. But it can go wrong on so many levels when there is no controle over it. This is not the same, to me, as direct mutalation to animals, dying and tatoo's on fish, snipping Pitbulls ears etc. I have actually only been to 1 petshop which sold pure glass fish. Unfortunately I'm just a drop in the ocean when it comes to not going back to these lfs. Some asshole will always buy his little girl a fishy with a pink heart on it's side
    ok enough ranting for now

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
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  15. Saturn

    Saturn Active Member

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    Daddy's little monster > tattoo fish
     
  16. Ladysphinx

    Ladysphinx Nalanti

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    Yeah I know what you guys mean, sadly my hubby bought 5 "painted" glass fish to my horror for my daughter. Once I explained to my husband why I was horrified he felt bad. Sadly only one survived and he is doing really well and he has lost most of his color. Now my hubby is on the lookout for some unpainted glassfish he can add to the tank.
     
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  17. dorff

    dorff Active Member

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    I would love to see the same in SA. Do you by any chance know how it succeeded in the UK? Maybe we can approach the SPCA to get the process started. I have differing views on GM vs dyed - they are two separate issues altogether. But both have valid reasons to be banned, or very tightly regulated in the case of GM.
     
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  18. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    @dorff we have a black list on both plants and fish and that doesn't help already. These black listed items arive in the country in masses through the right channels. They don't even need to smuggel them in anymore. I have heard of a lfs in Jhb that imports, on a monthly basis, fishes and plants, from Singapore. Which is cleared by customs at two of the smaller international airports in Gauteng.
    This doesn't happen with under the table deals eather. It is purley a case of "mislabling" on the imports. Border controle is not as tight as it should be compared to places like the EU and Australia. To put it in simple terms. Change starts with yourself. The more people you can directly influance the wide it will circle out and something will happen. Until we reach that stage there is sadly not much to be done. Don't wait for change, be the change.

    I feel so good after that. Who's with me to go and burn some lfs's?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Reedfish

    Reedfish Moderator

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    The law says that GM and a few other (mainly temperate) fish and crustceans may not be sold. And the fish shops keep that
    If they do, they will be taken to court. Fined or imprisonment.
     
  20. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    That is the reality we lack in SA @Reedfish Here you clame ignorants and get away with it

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  21. dorff

    dorff Active Member

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    Well, what can I say? Bad law enforcement is not an excuse to not make good laws, but the situation is somewhat depressing. I do think that laws are necessary. This type of law is not for the sake of people, but for the animals' and environment's wellbeing. It is also about ethics, where the 'right' side often has to wage trench warfare against the ignorant, opportunistic and downright mischievous. So I am pro law creation, and willing to walk the talk. As with all laws being made, the LFSs will get their chance to put their case forward.
     
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