Novice Nano Aquascape possibly Shrimp on a budget!

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Shrimpslutt, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Ok everyone, for those that did not read my introduction, my name is Morné, I stay in Pretoria and have no experience with aquariums, aquascaping or shrimp tanks.
    I am (with your help off course) over the next few months going to try and attempt all 3. So please watch this space and feel free to speak your mind and give your 2c.

    I am working on a budget here so that hopefully someone else can attemp to copy what I am trying to do at the same price point. However if you as an expert in this hobby sees an obvious flaw in my thinking and/or equipment please speak up.

    I will attempt to research as much as possible however, I have already noticed vast diffrences in opinion from our LFS when asking for advice so we would probably see much of that on the forum. Please be patient with me and when someone awnsers a question and you do not agree or it is not resolved please try and help me find a solution so things can move forward.

    I understand that for most of us it is easy to pop in to our LFS and just buy an off the shelf product to address an issue however this does not help the novice on a budget and often hinders our learning experience. so should you know of a cheaper alternative, please share. I am going to list what I have paid so that we can keep track of the costs in order to see how much a tank like this will cost and what results can realistically be achieved at the price point.

    I am sure mistakes will be made and lives will be lost , however this is what makes this project so exiting. Lets see what we can achieve together, I am putty in your hands and my success depends on your ability to teach.

    So here we go, and I hope you find these post intersting, or at least entertaining, who knows we may all learn something.

    Thank you,
    Shrimpslutt

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  3. Pezulu

    Pezulu

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    The best budget is getting things for free....

    Looking forward to seeing what you do, and at what price.
     
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  4. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Ok so this is the tank I bought on OLX for R400. It came with a light fitting and a 400 l/hour HOB filter a net, tools some rocks. For a stand and for storage of chemicals etc. I will be using a flat pack funiture stand destined for the scrap heap so that was free. I took an old LED spotlight (6400k 5watt) and added that to the flourecent PLL 18 Watt 4000K. aead9d6a5dc366f7317f13fc271cb67b.jpg6aef7c25ad56d386423ad77514b00cb5.jpgbee3932028eeea574dce0fd609e8d22a.jpge6a1e5c09419fd5a0327380dfec9b9cc.jpgd5af1f976b487d6dbf9b5043d78cb5cd.jpg

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  5. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Here you can see the spotlight I used to modify the light fitting. What are your thoughts. Would I be able to use this light? The total depth of the glass is 29cm deep. So water will probaly some up to 25cm, with a substrate depth of 5cm that will put the plants 20cm away from the light source. 23 watt total 4000k-6400k hybrid if you will 144c976ea201cdd425d5ecb2d55394a2.jpg3a1cd1a62948d6f450bb3310ad680abc.jpg20a67c7b3e70f06fa47fafc8cdfa8f8a.jpgc77e5b4514b6e3e8659e5adc39c1e76f.jpg

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  6. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Some other stuff I picked up today:
    Daro thermometer R15.
    Assortment of backgrounds 30cmx50cm R10 each. I will probably just go with the black.
    Stability in order to cycle the tank R130
    Tetra 6 in 1 test kit R362
    Filter material for stocking up the HOB R40
    Sponge filter for HOB intake to protect shrimp fry R27
    50 Watt heater R147

    Total Cost to date: R1171

    fbca554f2f5aee8f5d6b76bbf3e49d68.jpg7361d9c8691d85329121a83af895c623.jpg7aeb389a329ef2b0fefac8549cfe68e8.jpg9e427fbd416cb2ca03baf1145a4f29a1.jpg10e512dd74e2c6aa40bec7c69c9937ec.jpgb1ecb218d0eaeec0b4ee396ec7205df7.jpgb05d55ed9a93d984915660fc37a4c8a3.jpg

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  7. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Went to my local Bonsai shop. Got hold of this dead 5year old Huil Boer Boon Bonsai ef65edda554900323165f35ef910646b.jpg

    Cost R50

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  8. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Here I have stripped the bark from the tree and have been boiling out the tannins for hours now. 66f15e91b0ba6f1db3071e8a4c14309b.jpg9bf0de97c10299cf803c726a1eda0d00.jpg4875377361e383169fc5f37c467a1e54.jpg

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  9. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    A Cheapie CO2 kit R319
    Pack of 5 extra refills R79
    CO2 drop Checker R11880fd64bdc87a4bb6f9d98fd74e14e2e2.jpg

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  10. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    A Syphon R79 guess I cold have used a piece of pipe?
    A Starter pack of fertilizer R330
    Added Potasium on the advice of LFS R130

    This Brings the total cost so far to:
    R 2276.00ad937ee2d5553db82166a38cd29616ab.jpg74ef079a8943d4d0f66798c5b77b32e3.jpg

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  11. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    The best budget is getting things for free....

    Could not agree more...open to any donations

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  12. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    So my Prodibio substrate is on back order from the LFS. However I still have a concern. Up to date I have not seen anyone use the substrate as is......there is usually some sort of clay substrate (sub-substrate) to delay substrate depletion and improve availability of nutrients, also there seem to be a lot of people that add Mineral powder suppliments beneath the substrate as well as fertilization pellets. So far no one locally has been able to advise me on that?



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  13. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    My second question as we are approaching strat up:

    Do I understand it correctly that there are two types of tank cycles that need to happen?

    1. Normal aquarium cycle for fish - In my case this would be taken care of by the stability.

    2. Some sort of a plant cycle bacteria set, supplied by Prodibio with their substrate or in onther instances can be added for example AE Bacter.

    Or are these one and the same thing?

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  14. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    My third question:

    Which would be better for me

    1. Dry start method
    2. Immersed start method

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  15. Pezulu

    Pezulu

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    Question 1.
    Prodibio supply you with a liquid form of of the minerals as shown in many Youtube videos.
    Remember that clay compacts over time, forming a solid layer at the base of the tank.
    If you check the Prodibio video, you will see that they pour the substrate directly into the tank, contrary what The Fish Guy, Fish King and others do.

    Question 2.
    The important thing to remember is that you need to create an environment in which your fish can live.
    This means that your tank has to go through the nitrogen cycle, which means that ammonia becomes nitrite, which becomes nitrate. The nitrate is removed via water changes.
    Seachem Stability, as well as the the Prodibio Start_Up seed the tank with beneficial bacteria, which gets the ball rolling.
    Seachem advice using Stability for 7 days, while Prodibio state that you can add fish in a matter of hours.
    Traditionally people started the process by adding some fish food or even liquid ammonia to the tank water, and leaving it to cycle for at least a month.

    Question 3.
    Whether you use either method mentioned is a matter of personal choice.
    For tanks that consist mainly of ground covers and mosses the dry start method may be better as the plants seem to grow easier and establish themselves easier than when being submerged.
    There are also no fishes and other animals eating at the plants.
    Remember however that many plants go through a change when they are initially planted emersed, as compared to when they are planted submerged.
    Many plants go through a "melting" stage where the leaves die back, as the plants get accustomed to being under water permanently.

    A couple of other points to remember:

    The plants are going to be growing towards the light. Penetration depth is critical if you are planning on planting creeping type of ground covers, otherwise it is not that critical. In deep tanks (65cm+) it is more important.

    Neocardina shrimp are much more hardy that Cardina. They can take a bit more punishment, and still survive.
    Shrimp are very susceptible to CO2 levels, with even the smallest overdose possibly being dangerous to them. Take extreme care when using the CO2 system.
    You will also need a bubble counter to accurately measure the flow rate of the CO2.

    Seachem Fundamentals is a good starter pack, but very expensive. Seachem package their liquid products typically in 100ml, 250ml and 500ml bottles. The bigger the bottle, the cheaper they become in relation to size.
    You could get Seachem Excel, Iron and Flourish at R130 for 100ml, R185 for 250ml and R295 for 500ml. In this instance buying bulk is a huge saving.
    http://www.dorrypets.co.za/index.php/shop/tropical-product/additives-and-fertilizers/seachem-1


    The Tetra 6-in-1 strips are not very accurate, although they give you a good indication of the values you are testing.
    They also have a short shelf life. Check the packaging for the expiry date.
    Once you have built up a budget you could rather invest in a better liquid test kit like the JBL test kits available from Aqua Empire.
    https://www.aquaempire.co.za/test-kits-instruments

    If you are planning on keeping shrimp a TDS pen as well as a pH pen are almost critical. Get the best your budget allows.
    Most of them have an accurate digital thermometer built in as well, capable of reading in Celsius and Farenheit.

    I have never tried Schotia Brachipetala (Huilboerboon) in an aquarium, although it should be ok.
    If it isn't, spiderwood or Mopani driftwood is available from many LFS.
    To get rid of the tannins released by the driftwood, you could use Seachem Purigen. It works very well, and you can use it for years, as it can be recharged.
    Once again, it is quite expensive, but well worth the initial cost.
    http://www.dorrypets.co.za/index.ph...t/filter-material/seachem-purigen-100g-detail
     
  16. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Hi Pezulu, thank you very mu h for al tje detailed information. Much appreciated.

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  17. Stephan Liebenberg

    Stephan Liebenberg Chief McGill

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    You have a fairly small tank and I wouldn't bother with co2, or at least hold off with it until the aquarium is established (this allows you to introduce it super slowly without danger to shrimp) - there's a ton of plants that don't even need it (injected obviously they need co2 to photosinthesise) . Testing your aquarium is important but remember that stability is king! My shrimp are doing fine in fairly hard water, but I keep it stable. I run a 95l tank low light, no co2 and a spunge filter (besides, perhaps a bit too little circulation) I don't have any trouble. From what I gather co2 makes plants grow faster which means 1. They need trimming regularly and 2 it is more difficult to dial in your first because you grow the plants (needs more firtelizer) then trim it and it needs less all of a sudden. That could lead to algae blooms.

    Remember that shrimp has a tiny bio load so unless you're crowding the tank your plants won't really get much nutrients from their waste.

    From what I gather I think you spent a bit more than what I feel is absolutely necessary (this is however coming from a guy that spent over 3k on his first set up!) and whose budgeting over 5 for is next!

    Here's a few pics of my tank (may it inspire you) super jealous of that bonsai BTW think it'll look great! 1ec19d95bfb8b9e30fe9e2dc0337e19a.jpg23db5595b5145e66e220109aa3bb245e.jpg3191c09b724d3f19ac51c6f4d3d38e71.jpgd586a9474015c43d2bd527f7016c00b7.jpgb60f7ed2b33442b6e3e5c1696a09fed0.jpg646508f2aa8bd35f10f5fce0b80a7c8a.jpg

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  18. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Thanks for the advice Stephan. My main objective is to get a planted tank established. Only in a few months would I consider adding Shrimp. The little CO2 diffuser is really the simplest setup you can find and at R320 there is not much you can get second hand. Wher ewould you go about cutting cost?

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  19. OP
    Shrimpslutt

    Shrimpslutt

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    Just a quick update on the latest stock in prep for the Nano tank.

    So on strong recommendation I purchased Prime, initially I just wanted to use Sodium Thiosulphate. Also note that Seachem apparently had all their 100ml bottles stock stolen according to LFS. I was at about 5 stores in my vicinity and none had the 100ml bottle. Had to buy 335ml for R230.00
    Some fine white sand for aquascaping R59
    Assorted rocks some free, some bought R50
    2 Bags of substrate since 1 would not have been enough. R672 Note Prodibio does not have a small bag so you either buy 9kg and Shrimp mix for R1020 or you can buy a Seachem Black flourite and Prodibio Shrimp mix for R672.
    pH Pen and TDS pen R103

    Total cost to date:
    R3340

    Again please note, this is for someone that is new to the hobby. Therefore you cannot assume they even have something like a syphon or fish net. This is also to show our LFS how much it will cost a youngster to get into the hobby having to choose between a fish tank and a playstation. Also some may argue that CO2 would not be neccesary for such a small tank. At R500 of the total cost I believe the benefits outweighs the cost. Please share your thoughts, which of these purchases so far would you leave out/find alternatives for. Bear in mind "Mens will ook nie sukkel nie" For R50 I am not going to get in my jeep, spend who knows how much on diesel to find a piece of land to go search for 3 rocks in the middle of a heatwave at the risk of being shot by the land owner. If you live on a farm at the base of mountain getting a rock from the back yard may be worth saving the R50. So be realistic. 60c3b19bc8a3e1bd0ac8273f3d8c9702.jpgd76e4e8b5cd8cf7c4103ecca596ffa13.jpg93969f37a649777cf7a67aebc50388c1.jpg267252ba0b4f2253d2835783931f79b2.jpgee92a4117824835dda4ee26ecf49b341.jpg4c39d3e86b3ced7666f2a32d9ad05bde.jpg

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  20. Ren

    Ren

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    The Prime will last you a loooong time. Good buy.
    Perhaps ask here before you buy. Most members that can will share not only knowledge but hardscape and plants at much better prices than lfs.
    Freebies also happens

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  21. f-fish

    f-fish #unspecified

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