Removal of threads.

There was a post of someone selling a crayfish, after listening to members he took down the photo and price, asking how to humanely destroy it. Now it was removed without notice or explanation? Why are such harsh tactics being used when members are busy educating someone who was actively trying to do the right thing. It is unnecessary to delete something, lock it sure but deleting a learning resource? That seems backwards to me. Thoughts?

 

I agree to a certain extent - I think deleting the post is needed in the sense that it will generally be in a section that seems to promote the animal/plant/banned item instead of showing the educational point behind it.

My thought would be that maybe we should have certain parts taken from the original thread, and shifted to a new thread so as to show the fact that it is banned, while still allowing people to learn from it. I think a lot of the time if you see something in a store, you automatically think it is legal to buy and own and all that, when it is actually someone else in the wrong - so maybe (spit-balling an idea, so feel free to shoot me down), we create a section about trading banned "items" (lack of a better word, sorry), and use that as an educational piece. Include things like what to do to humanely destroy something and about other "items" that are banned but commonly seen so as to make it a little more freely available.

Again, just a (long winded) idea..

 

And then maybe also include most recently updated lists of banned fauna and flora as well so it can be an easier point of reference

 

Just an idea but the email I posted was a Dr from DAFF whos job is it to focus on ornamental fish - perhaps she could be invited to be on TASA as an advisor and educator? Or perhaps she will agree to be emailed with queries?

 

The thing is, I believe a while ago discussion about blacklisted species was allowed, as in it's not immediately cracked down upon. We were helping Educate, and now I had to help in a PM instead of on the open forum where it could help others. That's what I disagree with.

Perhaps it would be wise to get an official clarification on the status of invertebrates in the country. Last time I checked shrimp weren't exactly legal either (just ignored due to the low risk and probably a lot of illicit imports slipped by) yet shrimp are in every 3rd post. Having a department official confirm the status quo for us would be ideal.

I'm shocked that the staff have stayed quiet this long as well, this is an important matter and it's just been ignored. Their input would be appreciated.

 

The dreaded "banned/blacklist" post. Here goes; the government or people in charge cannot make up their minds what is banned and what not.They bring out list upon list and everybody give their 2 cents worth.. And that 2 cents is posted after the list came out. Now you are confusing a confused lot of people in charge of a list. Now banned is banned. you not keep it,breed it, sell it. Eat it if you like, But it is a big NO-NO. Certain species has been banned since noah took them an the ark(but he should have eaten them then) They will never be allowed in sunny lockdown SA. Doesn't matter if you want to be educated about that specific specie.Google it. But it is still banned and NOT TALKED about. Anything invasive is banned. You know being on this forum what is banned and blacklisted.

 

I agree completely, but I think you missed what we meant by "educate people". Not talking about educating them about the species that is banned, but rather on what is banned. From there, what to do should they possess said species. We regular, longer standing members do tend to know whats what, but that cannot be said for each and every person who joins, be it a year ago, today or in a years time. Not everyone in this hobby is an expert on all hings aquatic, and we could all learn new things (main reason we are all on this forum I think).

As you said though - if people want info on something banned, google it, but for the purpose of educating people on what IS banned and in some cases why, I think an educational part is needed.

 

Also another reason it might be a good idea is because often what happens is a person sees something in the shop and if they're not certain will try look it up, but because it's so difficult to try and find the most recent lists and translate them from their Latin names to their common names etc etc the person is likely to give up, assuming if it was such a big deal 1, it wouldn't be for sale and 2, it would be easier to find info on its status in this country.

My point is it might be a good idea to have a thread specifically dedicated to this topic to make searching this sort of stuff easier..

 

Maybe instead of a thread that all can comment on, we can have a forum based "info sheet"? A list with common names of the "current" list the gov put out (as Andries mentioned, they change their minds every 10 seconds), a little sheet on how to humanely and safely dispose of, and a contact list/website/details in general for where people can find out more and who to contact should they have any info to pass on or or tips or whatnot?

That way we can keep it to a bare fact related item rather than a discussion where the vital info gets lost? Maybe tied in with "temporary threads" where people can post a new item, get a yes or no, and then it gets deleted while the name of the banned species can then be added to the list saved, or a new common name added or whatever needs to be done?

 

That would be a really good idea, that will also prevent arguments with the more ambiguous species

 

I don't see the point in killing discussion on blacklisted species. I am active on a US based forum, and discussion of prohibited species like Asian arowana or Channa species is still allowed so long as it is not people having them in places where they shouldn't have them. Any other discussion about them is fine. My issue is in the threads where we as members are trying to help someone who was misinformed by his LFS. There is NO point in deleting that information when the poster was learning and members contributing. It feels like sloppy moderating to me. So long as we are not endorsing the illegal species I see no issue. I don't see the RSS feed getting struck down for talking about crabs:
https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/threads/what-do-crabs-eat-algae-protein-and-more.34444/
Or these:
https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/threads/pet-crayfish-7-freshwater-aquarium-crayfish.30015/
https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/threads/caresheet-cpo-crayfish-cambarellus-patzcuarensis.30283/

Where is the line drawn? People even get off with a slap on the wrist openly trading them on the forum:
https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/threads/blacklisted-crayfish-earlier-rss-feed.30294/

I almost banned a member on the other forum, from SA, due to keeping snakehead and gave warnings to the point where he is much more careful, well I heard about him in RBM so he hasn't been all to secret but you get the point. This sort of act must be met with reports to the authorities, I was close.

This forum has declined a bit in the age of social media. Serious keepers are not going to stay on a forum where this sort of thing is not taken seriously by the staff, I know people who have quit due to this. I have seen how a good, fresh staff team breathed new life into the other forum, the opposite can happen too. The staff need to chime in too.

Cherry shrimp could well compete with our Caridina nilotica or other local invert species. I have asked for clarification on the legislation from people who work in that field.

 

Unfortunately the legislation is hazy at best, I like your idea, but in cases where the initial request was taken down by the poster I don't see why we should delete it. TASA gets a lot of high-level results in local google searches, no point for us to cut that off.

 

Hi @Hendre ,

First and foremost I would like to say the following
Mods are not online 24/7 and although we try our best,we are human, sometimes we offline for a reason a day or two and miss a thread... in my case i have been in hospital for 4 weeks and 3 ops down the line, one to go a friendly reminder is all it takes
When ever anyone else goes quiet on the forum, i pm them and ask if all ok.. i think many can vouch for this
If you had a problem that Mods had not interfered in the discussion or replied, you could have had the courtesy to pm one of us or Admin and politely ask why, instead of the harsh slap at the mods on the open forum
We dont usually treat members that way.. some consideration .. thoughtfulness.. a friendly pm.. would have sufficed and been much nicer..
I at least have never not replied to your pms
The harshness and lack of courtesy and anger that comes across with this kind of attitude is what lands up often having threads closed
I think enough said on that

Quote
The thing is, I believe a while ago discussion about blacklisted species was allowed, as in it's not immediately cracked down upon. We were helping Educate, and now I had to help in a PM instead of on the open forum where it could help others. That's what I disagree with.

Reply
As a long standing member, i know for a fact that you are fully aware that there is a forum for " discussion on blacklisted species" " providing" discussion is conducted in a respectful manner.
I assumed other members know that too
I do believe you have participated in discussions on that forum

As has been said, the thread in question was on the for sale forum
Our forum rules clearly state discussion on BL species allowed on discussion forum but no sales of bl species
Being an open forum we can not leave that thread on the for sale or we can be legally accountable for that.

As for the Black list, the last and active blacklist is on a sticky thread on the blacklisted species forum

Many RSS Feeds on blacklisted species have come through... we have no control and allow for educational purposes
We were shot down by members more than once as to why we were allowing educational RSS feeds on blacklisted species.. ironically that is now the subject of this thread

I hope this answers you

If you or anyone wants a discussion on specific blacklisted species please feel free to use the Blacklisted Discussion Forum
Kindly keep the discussion respectful and not let it end up in arguments or thread is closed

I do trust this meets with your understanding as well as everyone else's

 

https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/forums/rss-feeds.162/

https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/forums/blacklisted-species.108/

https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/threads/link-to-black-list-2016.28007/

 

Thanks for the explanation @MariaS ! I haven't been around for as long as lockdown has made it feel, so a lot of that was new info for me and makes a lot more sense now!

 

I appreciate the feedback, in that instance, why not move it?

 

https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/forums/blacklisted-species.108/

https://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/threads/link-to-black-list-2016.28007/