Sexing Bolivian Rams

After much googling, it's still not clear to me exactly how to clearly see a difference in microgeophagus altispinosus. It may be clear as daylight to those who own them and have observed spawning, but I would love to see some clear pictures of what we can physically see when purchasing what we home is going to be a potential pair at a pet shop.

The differences that are supposedly clear are:
1) The female has a smoother body outline than the male, with the male showing a chin and a more angular outline.
2) The male has an extended filament on his tail fin.
3) the first 3 rays on the male's dorsal fin Re darker black and longer than that of the female.
4) The leading Ray of the pectoral fins are extended and darker on the male.
5) The mouth of the male is smaller than that of the female.
6) The female will never show a darker "Zorro stripe" than the male.
7) The most definitive for last, the male's fertilization tube is much smaller than the egg laying tube of the female. The male's is pointed backwards, whereas the female's looks more like a button.

I suspect that I've purchased a group of 5 males this weekend. The fertilization tubes all look similar, but as for the rest of the distinguishing features, it's a complete mix up. The fish are all 3-4cm in length.

I'll post some pics when I get a chance, but in the interim, would really appreciate some help from experienced keepers.

 

1) Male? I don't see filaments on the tail fin. Is that what the first 3 rays of the dorsal fin look like when described as extended?


2) Is that what's described as a "chin"?

 

3)Is that an angular body shape?


4) Male?


5) I based my selection of the sexes on mouth shape at the lfs. At home they all look similar. Is this the smaller and daintier face of a male?

 

6) Male because of the filament on the tail?

 

Hello,
From my observation and a little research, the females will have a blue dot or two in the black spot/stripe.
These look pretty young but I am guessing all male too. If you look at pic 6 & 4 you will see the dorsal fin is darker and generally the 2nd fin is longer in males.
Nice specimens and definitely these are true bolivians. How much did you pick them up for? In the January fotm I entered my bolivian. Obviously he is mixed but whoever did it, got the body lighter and did it successfully. I am hunting for a female for a while now.
Good luck, these guys look awesome when they put their breeding colours!

 

Come to think of it, the more I look at this guy the more he is looking like a golden long fin.
Any thoughts?

 

*Spanner in the worx*
Anal fin should be rounded and body shorter/stocky??

 

Are you wanting to know the sex?

 

These still look young to me, I`ve seen them spawing at my LFS and the males become obviously different to the females. Condition them and let them mature, let`s see what gives!

 

Hey Sash, I agree, that's not a Bolivian, it has red eye surrounds, that is a male golden fin hybrid of the Blue ram.

 

Hello Broder,

I'm no Bolivian Ram expert and these are still young, but to me it seems like you got lucky and have 1 female

The heads on these fish give it away for me. The males have "dip" on the forehead between the eyes and the females have more torpedo shaped heads. Also the males have a sharper pointier tip on the end of the dorsal fin.

So I have it as:
1- Could go both ways but probably a male
2- Male
3- Male
4- Female
5- Male
6- Male

I wish someone up in JHB get some of these guys
Let us know how it turns out.

Regards
Martin

 

Thanks Martin. I went back to the LFS to look at the remaining 5 that they have there, then home to compare to mine. The more that I look at them, the more I'm starting to see the difference in overal body shape.

 

Fortunately @Broder posted his and that helped confirm it!
I am still happy though. Coloration is satisfying!

 

Fortunately @Broder posted his and that helped confirm it!
I am still happy though. Coloration is satisfying!

 

Sorry for the double post. I am still two minded about no.4
The dorsal fin hasn't tipped yet but the anal fin seems to have it. Maybe he is just growing a little slower on certain parts IMO.

 

I agree Sash, difficult to tell at this size.

Broder, maybe if you have space, get the remaining ones also, you're bound to get a pair...LOL

They look like long distance runners, the LFS must be feeding once a week, very sad.

 

The lfs just got them in, so they skinny from the spa Don't worry, they'll fatten up by Christmas. I may just get the others as well. Good idea!

 

Of the 5 Bolivian Rams that I have, 4 like the one above seem to be males. I don't have a good pic of the female here, but just want to know if the ratio will be conducive to a pair forming, or should I get another female? The males appear (from what I've read) to be displaying courtship behaviour. There is a lot of sparring and posturing going on. It also appears as if their colouration is brighter, yet I haven't seen any clearing of rocks for egg laying or whatever is supposed to happen in a happy Ram home?

 

Looking good Broder!

I've read here that it can take these guys up to 2 years to mature! (Mike Wise on the linked forum is quite an apistogramma expert, so he probably knows something about bolivian rams)

The males might also be trying to establish a pecking order and territories, while the suspected female is probably too young and too confused to pick a male as yet.
With Blue rams, when the female starts swimming with one male more than the others, you know love is in the air and it won't take too long for the hokey pokey to start:tongue:
Again, I'm not sure if this is the same with bolivians, but most cichlids follow this courtship routine.

Yours are looking much better and more colorful than the ones on the linked forum, baie mooi.

Post some pics of the others, would be nice to see.

Cheers
Martin

 

Thanks Martin. I'm probably just being too hasty. No use trying to imposed one's own mating rituals upon one's pets I suppose