Territorial angels, do I need to sell?

Hi all,Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
I have 6 angels in a 120 cm tank and there are problems with aggression. Tanks size: 120 x 45 x 45 cmOccupants: 6 angels, 10 cardinal tetras, 3 ancistrus, 2 rummy nose tetras. Roughly three years ago I started with a single pair of angels. They did very well and, after about a year, they ended up spawning a couple of times but ended up eating the fry.

I was able to sex them at this point. They spawned about three times and after that, the female died. I'm not sure what she died of. There was some aggression between the pair then as a result (I think) of the failed spawnings.

I also introduced new fish into the tank then so it could possibly have been disease. After the female died, the male pretty much just hung around doing nothing, still ate well though. About a year ago (about six months after death of female) I decided to get some more angles. I bought 5 juveniles about 2 inches long each.

From what I read it was better to get a group so that the aggression is spread around more. The male from the original pair did not integrate himself with the new arrivals. They would usually be shoaling together and he would be hanging around on his own. He claimed about a third of the tank, leaving them with enough space.

The new arrivals are now reaching sexual maturity. There is paring happening and I spotted them "cleaning" a leaf. The old male's interactions with them is also changing, before it was always a type of non-serious aggression, just chasing them out of his territory whenever they enter. Now he will sometimes tolerate them selectively, I suspect the females or female of his choice. In terms of size he is still the biggest but they are catching up to him.

Shoaling now rarely happens at all and most of them are either alone or in pairs, mostly alone. It varies a lot, the social order is not established. I'm getting concerned because in the past, they would always flee any aggression but now they sometimes try to defend their position. I think this can lead to serious injuries though luckily it hasn't yet.

In any case, I think the smaller ones must be getting stressed with this situation.
Another consideration is that I would like to get some rams and I think they will have a hard time getting any food with the angels in there. I also don't intend to breed the angels at this point, I do have another 60cm x 30cm x 30cm tank with a cycled filter that I use for quarantining new fish, but I don't want to keep any angels in there in the long term.

So my questions are:
1. Is there a way to tell when aggression is a problem as opposed to a temporary phase?
2. Can I reduce the aggression somehow without removing some of them?
3. If I have to get rid of some, how many and which do I keep, if any?
4. Is my concern for the rams not getting enough food with the angels around justified?
5. Other general comments or questions welcome.

 

PS, sorry for the single-paragraph post. Not sure how to insert a linebreak... While editing it was separate paragraphs.

 

The aggression occurs when they start pairing, 6 fully grown angels in a 120 tank is too many in my opinion, they need more space and more cover, plants, driftwood, stones etc so they can establish their own territories in such a way they do not see each other. I would remove pairs and house them in different tanks, especially if you want to breed.Try feeding the angels and other fish at different sides of the tanks at the same time.

 

Rams and Angels are both Cichlids, and both will want to establish their own territory, so some agression can, and probably will occur between the two species. With the angels a lot larger than the Rams, I dont see it ending very well for the Rams...

 

6 angels in a 120cm tank is too many by itself, never mind the Rams.
Also judging by the pic you posted there isn't much separation in your tank. It sounds like you had your tank for a while already, ...time to add more plants (a lot more) ....and remove your plants from the plastic pots.

 

So my questions are:
1. Is there a way to tell when aggression is a problem as opposed to a temporary phase?
When you see physical damage (rare) They will always "spar" I have 15 in a 1.8m tank. Do not worry too much about it. Pecking order will be completed soon.
2. Can I reduce the aggression somehow without removing some of them?
No
3. If I have to get rid of some, how many and which do I keep, if any?
IMHO you have enough and do not put more.
4. Is my concern for the rams not getting enough food with the angels around justified?
I have lots of other species with my angels and they all get food.
5. Other general comments or questions welcome.
Plant more definitely, add some quiet corners with hardscape.

Oh and your Cardinals will start disappearing once the angels reach fully grown size for your tank. They love them as a snack. Especially neons and smaller tetras/fish.