Who doesn't use de-chlorine/chloramine for water changes?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Pierré Schoonraad, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    I'm starting this thread out of curiosity. I don't use any water treatment for my wc. Only exception is on my 3ft were I use week old aged water. As Pretoria is using chloramine at the moment, as far as I have heard but don't have proof, this aging does nothing to clear chloramine.

    I suffer no effects on any of the 12 tanks I'm running at the moment. Tanks are 4ft with 3ft sump, 1 x 3ft, 2 x 2ft, 1 x 1,5ft, 3 x 1ft, 1 x cube 30 x 30 x 30, 1 x 20 x 67 x 10 and 1 x 30 x 40 x 10.

    Fish in these tanks are Rainbows, Loaches, Corri, Panaque, Cocketoides, Catfish, Molly, Eldler, Ansistrus, Tetra, Otto and also Red Cherry-, Blue Jelly-, Blue Carbon- and Rainbow Shrimp. Not the most sensitive fish around but no gasping for air. No red gills. Just normal spawning reactions after colder water entering their closed systems. Shrimp are doing awesome. In more than a year, of doing this, I have lost only 1 fish after a 18 hour power outage. Only other fish deaths were jumpers from the cube and 3ft, the only tanks without glass tops.

    My take on this, I'm not an expert on this though, is that fish/shrimp can build up a degree of resistance to chlorine/chloramine over time in the same way as bacteria/virus can buld up resistance to meds.

    I'm open to critisism of my method. I use my nose as only test for water safety. I don't own any form of test kit to check my water perameters. I only use salt as a "medical" treatment. My Endlers is doing extremely well and multiplying like crazy. Every other tank has Boesimanie fry in them, as the stray eggs are moved through plants/moss being replanted in other tanks from the 4ft.

    Now my question is: How many of you does the same thing? Or maby I should ask: Who is willing to face the brunt of the forum by admitting that they do this?

    I'm waiting for your replies. What works for me might not work for you though

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  3. 5p1nn3k0p

    5p1nn3k0p

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    I too does not use any form of water treatment.
    Also no pissie fishes in my collection, some malawis, swords, pleco's, guppies, platties, mollies, danio's and cories...

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  4. rsa

    rsa

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    I do 50% weekly water changes , water comes straight from the hose. Not adding anything, no problems.
     
  5. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    That's what I want. People showing balls and not being scared of the 'know it all' out there that will judge you. Thanks @5p1nn3k0p & @rsa

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  6. ahmed00ismail

    ahmed00ismail

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    I use to add a few seachem products after every water change and also test weekly after I had a problem where I lost like 80% of my fish one night I totally stopped adding anything I do a wc once every 2 weeks and add nothing

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  7. Jwh

    Jwh

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    Wow, good to know that apparently anyone that uses declorinators lack balls, are somehow forced to use these products by "know it all's", can't think for themselves, and are unable of independent thought to consider common sense, conventional wisdom or science.
    It's like putting forth arguments that people that smoke 20 a day have balls, because they have smoked since the age of 15 and are 40 now and are "perfectly fine", and the balls people have that drive drunk, because they are "awesome drivers, and drive better drunk than sober drivers in any event", and so on and so forth....
    Maybe we should occasionally consider the available science, and understand that a bell curve has outliers on both ends.
     
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  8. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Clearly you misunderstood my coment. I never said you have balls if your doing something stupid. Having the guts to take up a no-no issue is what it is about. Every singel person on this forum have their own oppinion regarding everything. There is no set right or wrong answer out there. Almost everybody will give a different one, mostly their own oppinion. I'm not a normal follow the heard person. Was there done that.

    By having balls I meant:
    People thinking out of the box
    People not following the heard
    People having the guts to stand up and say I don't agree with what your saying and willing to face the consequence of their action.

    Out of this whole forum only 2 other people stood up and had their say. Trust me there is mutch more out there that does this. They are just not willing to stand up and say I do it differantly. I respect your method you use. It works for you and many others. I don't want to use it. Respect that and more people will join in conversations here without fearing the brunt of the forum

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  9. Saturn

    Saturn

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    I do two water changes a week for my goldies a 70/80% on a Saturday with conditioner and a 20% on a Wednesday with only salt as per the traditional Japanese method, so for I have not noticed any side effects on my fish. But for major water changes yes I will always use conditioner to be on the safe side. To be honest if I had a planted tank than I would forgo the conditioner.
     
  10. lennard

    lennard

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    I change most of my tanks water by letting out some and adding more by a slow flow both ways. Most of the time the water is not aged. If it is done carefully no harm will come from this. I do change about 25% of the water most of the time. I have forgot twice to stop the process and both times the pearlscale goldfish and guppies in their tanks shown some swimming problems- mostly floating to the top. The next day they behaved normally. When I do big water changes I do use dechlorinator - especially when the water looks like milk!
    I personally do experiment on everything that is said out there - I like to clear things out for myself. But all said and done, not every one out there shows common sense and they must follow the well trodden ways set by other peoples experience.
    Most of my tanks are very heavily planted and I do believe it helps maintaining a healthy buffer.
     
  11. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Thanks @Saturn and @lennard apreciate the input. When the water looks like milk I will wait a day or 2 as well. @Saturn why will you not use conditionar when a tank is plated?

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  12. Saturn

    Saturn

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    Plants are great biological filters on their own, so my theory goes that a lot of plants will keep the tank water pristine without added chemicals.
     
  13. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Thanks. Plants are a great benevit to any tank. All mine have plants in them. Do you have any unchewebles for your goldfish?

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  14. Saturn

    Saturn

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    Currently just grass, hoping to do a planted goldfish tank soon.
    This is my goal.

     
  15. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Very nice plan. Had 2 goldfish a while ago and the ripped everything to shreds.

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  16. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    Ok... Let me give my input as well....

    I am on borehole water ( for the last 28 years) on the same property.

    Have kept aquariums since a young girl and always used dechlorinator
    When we moved to this property I stopped the hobby as I was breeding and training shepherds and I just couldnt cope with fish tanks as well however, we built a very big pond and i had comets and koi

    Being on borehole i did not see the need to use anything so i didnt
    My pond and fish did well for about 6 years, never a problem and one day out the blue we cleaned up and water changed as always and in 24 hours all my fish were belly up...
    Never giving the water a thought we restocked 3 or 4 times and this kept on happening
    I then decided to use conditioner and it never happened again

    When I retired a bit from what I was involved in, we started up the fish tanks again as I missed my tanks very much
    I must be honest... I dont have the balls to do a water change without conditioner and run the chance that it happens again...

    I am not saying i am right or anyone else is wrong i just dont have the courage to put the lives of my rays, my arowanas, discus, etc.. on the line...
    We have a saying that a cat that has been burned in hot water will always be scared of water... well.. thats me..
     
  17. Jwh

    Jwh

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    @Pierre As I said before - your tanks, your fish...

    On the topic of declorinators, my perspective is that chloramine and chlorine are harmful to aquatic life, including the beneficial bacteria found in filters. We add these chemicals to our drinking water to kill bacteria that may otherwise cause harm, hence we seldom hear about outbreaks of cholera etc. this is at least the basic science.

    We know from articles and research papers that water in SA is becoming more and more polluted, with bacterial counts ever increasing, especially in times of drought as we are currently experiencing.

    The easiest/only way for local authorities to combat these increasing bacteria levels is to add more anti-bacterials viz chloramine and chlorine.

    A study done by UKZN (I have not looked at this recently so may be a little fuzzy on the exact details) showed that (especially in smaller towns) the dosing of chemicals to our water is highly variable, and both significant under and overdosing occurs on a regular basis

    There seems little contradiction that dechlorinators are effective in removing/reducing these potentially harmful chemicals from water when adding this to a tank, thus minimizing the risk chlorine and chloramine may pose to the inhabitants of the tank, including the bacteria in the filter. (There are other ways to remove these chemicals - carbon, resins, gassing-off etc)

    Declorinators (Seachem Safe) are very cost effective, at around 90c/1000l of water treated. These product are widely available and easy to dose. The cost/benefit ratio must be hugely favorable, especially if you were to cost in a potential filter crash, with a resultant ammonia spike and loss of fish.

    So from my perspective there is little to gain by not using these products, and hence I do. This has nothing to do with "following a herd" as opposed to considering available information and science.

    As you say, you don't want to do this, - and again I say - your tanks, your fish...
     
  18. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Appreciate your comment @Jwh. I understand your perspective on this. No problem with that. Please understand that I will not intensionally harm my fish with using my method. If I don't feel safe doing a water change with the quallity of water coming out of the tap I will not do it. I'm just not a fan of adding more chemicals to a closed system. I personally will only take an asprin if I can't handle the headace.

    @MariaS sorry to hear about the insident with the borehole water and I fully understand that it is the reason for using conditioners. If I had fishes like rays, arowanna or discus I will defenitally use it as well. I'm just under the impression that the problem with your borehole water might be due to polutants which the conditioner could help in removing. Are you using any form of carbon in treating this water before adding it to your tanks?

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  19. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    @Pierré Schoonraad , I have no doubt it could have been polutants or metals in the water although it always tests ok for drinking every time i have had it tested.
    There was no smell, colour or taste change.
    No, at the time i didnt use any form of carbon to treat it as there was no need
    Like i said, for almost 6 years there wasnt a problem but you never know what tomorrow brings so I use Prime for major changes as they say it neutralizes excess minerals and metals as well and safe for smaller water changes or top ups
    i think the reality of it is that what we take for granted today might not be so tomorrow so its up to each person to decide whether to take a chance or not.

    I also know what chlorine does to you as i used to sterilize my puppies sleeping quarters with water and chlorine and if sometimes i accidentally put too much chlorine in the water my eyes and throat would burn like hell!!!!

    I also think that as @Jwh said, the drought we are having which started slowly already about 5 years ago. the lack of sanitation and increase in settlements in some areas polluting the rivers and streams and thus our water beds, together with the fact that more chemicals are being used to treat the water, all this is adding to the risk and I guess for now, it doesnt look like things will change very soon if ever, so I cant bring myself to take any chances.....
     
  20. OP
    Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Thanks @MariaS I am aware of the effect and need for chlorine/chloramine in our drinking water. Like I said previously I will not do a wc if I'm not fealing safe about the quantity of chlorine in the water.

    I understand fully that you and @Jwh are only pointing out that this is a risk I'm taking. I know I'm not working with a constand supply of water with x amount of chlorine in it. Human error is all around.

    To give you a simple example. My sister got goldfish for her daughter. I told here to get water conditioner, she stays in Centurion and out of experiance I know the water always smells there. She phones me one day in tears. One fish lying on it's side and the other one gasping for air. First thing I asked her was if she used conditioner. Yes she did pretreat water the previous evening and only did a wc after 24 hours. I was stumped and started googling. No explanation other than chlorine poisoning. I phoned back and asked her if she shaked the bottel before adding it to the water. No. Did another wc with shaken bottel. Fishes fine.

    I will never advice a noob not to use conditioner for their water. I will never advice a profesional aquascaper not to use conditioner for their water. I personally don't use it anymore and it works for me. What I realy want to know is if it is possible for fish to build up resistance against chlorine/chloramine? I believe that they do, although this is completely unsientific findings of my own.

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  21. dorff

    dorff

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    @Pierré Schoonraad, I use water out of the tap for my outside tubs, which house a few livebearers and dwarf mouthbrooders (dwergkurper). For my inside tanks, I use RO with Seachem Replenish. For the planted tank, I add Seachem Flourish and Trace as well, and CO2 and occasionally some Excel. I have had a disastrous episode with Harties municipal water, which killed fish even after dechlorination treatment. So I am very cautious now.
     

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