Discus

Love that first photo! Great condition and shape.

 

+1

Andrew, those little guys are fantastic! When I'm in Cape Town, I'm definitely coming for a visit!

 

Thanks to all those adding kind words to this thread. Here are some updated photos for some Friday afternoon viewing:


This guy is the first 'barless' fish that I noticed in the group and he is starting to develop some interesting pattern. His shape is perfect: on the photo he was turning.

 

Unusual red barring on this guy.

 

As the colours are starting to develop amongst the group, this guy has started to catch my eye. Brown body with very dark blue/black dorsal and anal fin. Keen to see how this fish matures.

 

Here is one of the 9-bar fish from the same spawn.

 

Stunning @pHish_man !

 

@Reedfish

Thanks, they are about 5 months old now. Need to move them into a system with better filtration so I can feed more often. Really want these guys to grow out large so we can see their potential for possible breeding stock for 2016.

 

Hi @pHish_man,

Hope you are well. Ive been trying to find a bit of time to post here. I now have a few minutes to highlight a few points of interest.

Your fish are looking stunning. The variety from this spawn is especially interesting as it defies the conventional understanding we laymen have of genetics. Snakeskin discus have always been an exception to the common mendelian principles of genetics - and Im sure there is an easy explanation for it - but not being schooled in genetics leaves me short of the biological understanding of this gene and its variables.
The interesting part I wish to point out to you is the matter of barring.
Now commonly we accept a Snakeskin to have 14 bars. Years ago there was a 9 bar snakeskin - and there is also a 21 bar snakeskin which I have never seen, but have heard of. Take a moment and count the bars on your fish though....on some I count 16, others 18. One I get 14, but then the bars in the head and operculum are invisible so I cant count them.
How is this related to the final look of this fish? Why are you getting such variety in bars?
I havent a clue what these parents were - but I would guess both were Snakeskin?

I recently received a copy of Andrew Soh's Discus books. Im hoping I can find some info in them to help clarify this for us as its quite interesting to see all this variety.
Thats the Snakeskin gene for you though I guess. It has certainly changed the way we look at Discus hey - it brought with it the most incredible possibilities and your fish are testament to that.

Regards

Marco

 

Hi @Marco

Thanks once again for you extremely interesting input. yes, you are quite correct, the parents of these fishes are both snakeskin.

Here is the male:


And this is the female:



Both parents fanning their eggs laid today 4/11/14



What is interesting to note is that whatever gene that is causing these weird colour morphs amongst the young must be carried by the male. I have plenty of young of different ages from the female where she was mated up with a leopard, and none of the young of those batches show this. The male pictured here has only ever sired off spring with this female.

Unfortunately, this female is laying so often now that the pair get the fry to about 10 days, then the parents 'switch' off, the fry cruise all over the tank and 2 days later the female spawns again. I would like to break this pair soon and give them a rest until next season.

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew,

Just a point of interest - its not per say the male OR the female who carries this gene which is giving this variety. Its more the combination of their genes based on both of them being Snakeskin
Id venture a prediction that if you were to breed the male to a non Snakeskin fish - be it leopard or red turquoise - you will not get this sort of variety-and the fish will be closer to the predictable 50/50 split of 9 bar and 14 bar fish.

What Im interested in seeing is you raising the ones with no bars and then breeding them to each other, to 9 bar varieties and also to unrelated fish - that should give a clear indication of what the possibles are.
By the way -I recently saw a barless Snakeskin Adult on another Forum. I will try and get a photo and post it here if thats ok with you. Will give you an idea of what it might look like.

Regards

Marco

 

Howzit Marco

Ok, this is interesting then. So a ss/ss combo is what is the catalyst then. So if tank space and time allows for it still this season, I could put this ss male with a different ss female of the same age and see what they produce. Of course we both know that with discus its all a long term commitment and very much a scale of economics. So I don't want to produce heaps of offspring that have no market value. The cost of raising discus is high as you know and one wants to produce fishes that have some sort of market appeal.

But at the end of the day, im with you on retaining the current 'barless' young for my own collection and also to see how they pan out as adults. But honestly bud, you need to come and take a holiday down to the fairest Cape and lend a hand with all these flat fish....LOL.

I really must get a thread going of these MM's. Cant believe they been here for over a year now and the growth we have managed.......and now the twitching and shaking has started with this crowd too.......

Andrew

 

I really must get a thread going of these MM's. Cant believe they been here for over a year now and the growth we have managed.......and now the twitching and shaking has started with this crowd too.......

Come on Andrew this is the 4th threat you have made now get on with it, and please put pics from beginning to now!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

Jason

 

Hi Andrew,

You ask a good question.
I'll answer this way - Im convinced you need both parents to be Snakeskin to get this sort of variety -BUT....both parents being Snakeskin does not guarantee this type of variety.
So its mote than a gene/strain thing....a bit in the territory beyound my knowledge and understanding..

Im going to start on a "visiting tour" hopefully quite soon. I have quite a few people I owe a visit - and hoefully soon work will permit me to get away. Its always hard when self-employed.
Cape Town is on that list and you are most definitly one Id love to come visit - but if Ill be of any help is another question - told you before - you dont need help....lol

By the way here is the pic of that barless Snakeskin.


Interesting hey?

Oh and yes...please get those MM's up here. Ive had a "sneak-peek" at them but want to see them now already . . .

Rgds

Marco

 

Hi @pHish_man

Thought Id share this with you.
This is a wild caught Snakeskin Discus.
Prof Dirk and I had discussed this before, and this is now another example of this gene existing in the wild.
This was caught some days ago by Santarem discus.

 

This thread is getting really interesting guys.

 

Hi Marco

Thanks for uploading the photo of the barless snakeskin. To be honest, im not sure whether I like it or not, but it is VERY interesting.

Yes, I have seen in HB books he shows photos of wild caught fish with more than 9 bars. Any idea from which region this particular fish comes from that Santarem discus caught?

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew -
They didnt state from which region, and its doubtfull youd get an honest answer from them anyhow! Lol its all about location and crony dealings down there it seems.

Marco

 

Hi Andrew how are these little ones doing?

regards

Jason