Hatching and growing brine shrimp

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Ammar, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. OP
    Ammar

    Ammar

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    thank you very much for this @Dirk, you says we should use bs eggs for feeding babies only, is it not a good source of nutrient for the "bigger fish" as well, by bigger i mean older such as adult guppies tetra etc. and when you say normal salt, are we talking about table salt? thank you
     
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  3. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Hi Ammar,

    Yes certainly you can feed baby bs to larger fishes such as guppies and tetras, I do as well, but what I am saying is that trying to raise them is not worth it, feed them when they are freshly hatched.

    Table salt is actually not as good as coarse salt or sea salt. There have been long debates about whether to use iodated salt or not and that is also fine, because fishes need iodine just as much as we do as well. However coarse salt or sea salt tends to contain more carbonates which are beneficial, table salt tends to be more pure sodium chloride. Just for your information, the "aquarium salt" sold by LFS is mostly, pool salt that they have bought in 25 or 50 kg bags and which they have repacked into small plastic bags and which they are selling with astronomical profits, just another ripoff that we are exposed to from the pet trade.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  4. OP
    Ammar

    Ammar

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    thank you very much @Dirk, really appreciate your informative input
     
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  5. blueskipjack

    blueskipjack

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    Hi Dirk will seawater be fine to hatch bs?Thanks William
     
  6. HennieRoux

    HennieRoux

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    I use to use only sea water to hatch my bs when i stayed in Mtunzini....I actually had a better hatch rate with sea water....but it was from the river mouth deeper in, so I dont think it was as salty as normal sea water.
     
  7. blueskipjack

    blueskipjack

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    Thanks will try that and see what happen.I need bs quickly.My jewels just had there first batch of fry.
     
  8. Bandit

    Bandit

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    I only use decapsulated brine shrimp eggs.

    No need for hatching, just let it sit in some aquarium water for about 20 minutes to expand a little and feed it to the fish.
     
  9. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    If you want to use sea water it is excellent but you need to dilute it to some extent with fresh water, it is too concentrated but you can use the hydrometer for that again.

    Sorry Bandit, but decap bs does not work for small fry, they MUST see that the bs is live, so the decap cysts don't work, otherwise nobody would do the hassle with the hatching in the first place.

    Blub,

    Dirk
     
  10. Bandit

    Bandit

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    I used it to raise my angel fry, they loved it.

    I used a syringe to suck it up and then squirt it into the water and they ate it.
     
  11. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Yes, angels are the exception to the rule. For any other tetras and similar egg layers and especially for discus, they would not be interested.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  12. Wickets

    Wickets Scalare

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    I'm a bit confused here. I thought you would have to concentrate the sea water, instead of diluting it, since Artemia occur in salt pans, and brine pans of salt factories?
     
  13. HennieRoux

    HennieRoux

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    There is a line Attisons does, its newly hatched bs in a brine, they are obviously dead, and i once had a big batch of fry and ran out of newly hatched bs, so i tried it, it took the fry about 2 days to get use to it, but once they did, they loved it and it did the trick. But obviously newly hatched bs is best of best, and like prof said, if it dont move, the fry is sceptical to eat it.
     
  14. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    No Wickets,

    The salt concentration for bs hatching is lower than sea water. Salt pans vary with regard to their salt content depending on how much water evaporates, read the story again that I wrote about the great salt lake in Utah.

    Hennie please explain more, I cannot understand (bietjie dom, jy weet).

    Blub,

    Dirk
     
  15. HennieRoux

    HennieRoux

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    Oom Dirk....haha ek is seker jy is baie dinge behalwe dom!

    Attisons is the guy from Thailand, a very popular breeder of Bettas, i know you are not big into Bettas, so you might know or not know of him, you might say he is the Jack Whatley of Bettas, he does a range of foods, and one of the ranges is newly hatched BS in some kind of brine sulution.

    So when the bs hatched they basicly put the newly hatched bs in this sulution to preserve the goodness and nutriotional value....once its opened, it must be refrigerated and can be kept for about 3-4 weeks if i can remember correctly.

    Works well if you miss judged your bs hatching.
     
  16. Wickets

    Wickets Scalare

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    I'm the doffel here. I just assumed that salt pans would be more salty than sea water.
     
  17. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    OK Hennie,

    Now I know what you are talking about. You can use that product for bettas and perhaps other gouramis but again for those fishes that want something live, this will not work. For bettas and gourami fry, you need something that stays near the surface and this type of food certainly does this.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  18. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Oh and I wanted to tell you a nice story about brineshrimps as well.

    When brineshrimps hatch in pans they eat algae and they go that red colour from the astaxanthins and the cathaxanthins in the algae.

    Now, flamingos, when they filter feed are actually feeding for brine shrimps. They then absorb the astaxanthin and cathaxanthins and this is deposited in the wing feathers and that is why flamingos are pink on some of their feathers. If flamingos are kept in zoos and they feed them on other foods they lose all their pink colouration in the feathers.

    Now that is food for thought!

    My useless 2 cents worth for today,

    Dirk
     
  19. HennieRoux

    HennieRoux

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    Very interresting @Dirk...now since we are on this subject, and I know there have been many threads on BS but please can you share some light on the difference between sea monkeys and BS, or are they the same thing?

    Then I have been hatching BS since I was about 19 witch just happen to be for my ever sucessfull spawn and raise of fry (Bettas), I am now 33 and have spend allot of time of perfecting the hatch rates and knowing more about them, but I know there is also different sizes of BS as they come from different lakes, why is this? And where do we get most of our BS from here in SA, I have been buying the ocean nutrition tin, and the size seems small enough to feed my 1 day old betta fry and the hatching rates is excellent.

    Then how good or bad is it to keep your tin of BS in the fridge?

    Then I normaly put my eggs in my salt sulution 24hours before aeration, this allows the eggs to swell, and drop to the floor and does not jump onto the sides of my container, this seems to increase my hatching rate slightly, I know sunlight helps with hatch rates, but will a lamp close to the container assist with hatching like real sunlight?

    What is the correct temp for good hatch rates, as I find in winter the hatching takes slightly longer but still hatches well, if I move my temp to approx 26 deg I have worse hatch rates then lets say a 20 - 22 deg?
     
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  20. tracyp

    tracyp Lotus

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    hmm... Dirk, your flamingo story sent me down another path!

    As we almost always have a flock of (pink) flamingo's feeding in our lagoon, can one then assume that there are brine shrimp present? And would there be a way to harvest some? I am just asking out of interest!
     
  21. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Hi Hennie,

    Sea monkeys and brine shrimps are the same thing, its just a lot of bs (not brine shrimps).

    Yes, there certainly are different types of brine shrimps, they are actually of different species. The eggs of the one from San Francisco Bay are actually smaller than the Great Salt Lake ones and they are different species. A couple of years ago I actually got brine shrimp eggs that originated from China which were fantastic, they were larger and I could use them very nicely for my larger fishes, but they required a special salt which contained a lot more potassium so people couldn't hatch them properly and that was the end of that.

    Most of the bs eggs in South Africa come from the Great Salt Lake in the USA because that is where most of them are harvested. However, if you want to get me agitated you start talking about the sale of bseggs in LFS in SA. The state of these eggs is SHOCKING and mostly a complete and utter ripoff. It is a combination of greed, misinformation and ignorance which leads to this state. Firstly, the price of bs eggs is determined by the hatch rate. When I import eggs, I always try to import the highest quality relative to the price. In recent years there have been major shortages in some years and the price has rocketed in those years but then does come down again (does that ever happen in SA???????). I am sure that most of the eggs that are imported by wholesalers in SA are the lowest hatch rate because they want to make the biggest profits because of greed, and I will take on anyone that wants to argue with me about this, the situation towards the SA aquarist is nothing short of rank exploitation. How many complaints do we get on TASA about bseggs that don't hatch or only have a low hatch rate, far too many!!!!! But there are good quality eggs around such as the Ocean Nutrition. Ocean Nutrition eggs are harvested from San Franscisco bay so they are the small ones which you can feed to the betta fry, but all the others are perfect for angels and discus and other fishes in any case.

    It is a major benefit to store your bseggs in the fridge, but if they have been lying in the LFS on a hot shelf they are most probably shot in any case, that is why I say ignorance because most LFS owners don't know this. The other big killer, shall I say, of bs eggs is moisture and they must be stored dry, which is another thing the LFS owners are clueless about. You have to be careful when you store a tin in the fridge that when you take it out, you do not get condensation on the inside of the tin, because this then draws into the eggs and causes them to loose hatchability. My advice is to keep a small amount in a tight fitting jar outside the fridge for regular use, but to store the tin in the fridge or freezer for longer term storage. When you want some of the eggs out of the fridge, take the tin out and let it stand outside for an hour to warm up before opening it, then you don't get condensation on the tin any more. You take out the eggs you need into your jar, reseal the tin, you can also put a plastic zip-lock bag around the tin and put it back in the fridge for long term usage. In this way you have much better hatch rates over the long term.

    Freshwater flushing is said to increase the hatch rates and you can do it, but I do not bother, my eggs that I import hatch very well in any case.

    Correct temp is between 26 and 28 for 24 hour hatching, higher temps are not so good and reduce hatching again, over 30 does not work, you kill the eggs. Below 26 the eggs take longer to hatch and they hatch more unevenly, some hatch faster than others, so this is less good, but certainly does work. An artificial light works fine, and aquarium light works very well, you can cut off a 2.5 liter coke bottle (Coca Cola SA, commission please for the advertising!) at the base and invert it and attach it to the sides of the aquarium with two washing pegs, then use a rigid pipe that goes to the bottom of the container for aeration and you have the perfect hatchery for the amateur.

    I actually think this thread should become a sticky thread so I do not have to write this story again.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013

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