New plant blacklist

Very interesting read Prof, I am all for moving forward and if it prevents people for importing and or supplying non aquatic plants then great.., is it safe to assume then if something is not on the importers list that we could then request this plant be looked at?

Or does it mean that plant is not allowed?

 

Hi Lizid,

As I wrote, in future you can apply for any new plant and it can then be assessed and included in the list of plants that may be imported.

As I wrote in my post, please read carefully, all the information is there.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof.

Firstly, I would like to say thank you. Thanks for all the effort that went into the list from your side. I can't imagine how much work went into this, and I am very happy that the list has finally been released.

Secondly, I would like to thank you for clarifying the "details" of the list. I knew posting the list would create some form of controversy, but I did it so that the members of the Plant Forum could see that something was being done about the situation, as they are growing grumpy. Hehehe...

So, thanks very much. We really appreciate the effort!

Regards

Sean

 

Hi Sean,

Thank you for your comments.

I want to make one thing quite clear here and I refer to your comment:

My only role in this process has been in assisting that the list gets drawn up in the first place. So I just want to clarify that I have not been delaying this process, I have not decided the speed of this process, the Department of Agriculture has, just so that this is fully understood by all of the members of this forum please.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Sorry Prof, I never implied that you, or anyone else, were delaying the process at all, and if it came across that way, I apologize.

I think we all understand that doing a task like this requires a hell of a lot of time, and I don't think that anyone was under the assumption that it would be an overnight process. But at the end of the day, nobody has kept the aquatic community in the loop of anything which has been happening since December last year. The only things that we ever heard were "we are working on it". So that's the only reason I posted the list. To show that it has indeed been "worked on".

Regards

Sean

 

Hi Sean,

I actually fully agree that the process has taken far too long, so this has become a sensitive issue, and I just don't want this to reflect on me. I hope you can understand.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hey Prof

I understand completely. Not to worry. I'm just glad it's finally out.

Regards

Sean

 

Thank you @Dirk for your work in this regard; it is much appreciated, and very welcoming.

As well as the nicely detailed explanation for all - thank you.

Me as OCD/ADHD type, love the fine details and very factual information .... much much appreciated

You've made me happy!!

Thanks @Sean J for posting the thread and sending us the link to the forum - this is of HUGE interest.

 

Finally some good news,thanks to the prof again,dont know what we would do without you

ps now if you can just nudge them along with the other list there would be a whole lot of happy people here.we know you can do it.

 

All great and fine to have a list (which btw hasnt been made law yet as far the feedback from Dep Agri goes) but how do you enforce it at port of entry?

 

Well dude that's where customs come into play that in itself is a problem!

 

It's a step in the right direction. We've been waiting for almost a year for something positive to happen. It's finally happened. We have a plant list. That's what we've been after. Next step, once it's law, is permits. Which I am told is close. By DAFF by the way. Close, as in this week.

 

Great that we can have our permits again but there is no way they can enforce the list as no one knows the plants. All they do at port of entry is make sure that the invoice and the name on the bag matches up and that there isnt any snails in the shipment. They do not have the skills to identify terrestrial plants, let alone aquatic plants.

 

As far as I am concerned, I will only import plants that I'm allowed to import. I will not put my business at risk by importing plants that I'm not allowed to. That is the bottom line. It is up to the individual to make the decision to be legal about their activities, and not to try and dodge the system. Besides, most of the plants are already in the country anyway, so obtaining the ones not allowed to be imported will not be a big deal in any case, so long as they are not on tha CARA (SP?) list of potentially threatening and controlled species.

This is the most positive news we've had in the planted aquarium hobby in a year and you can't see past the negativity.

 

No mate - not negative but realistic. The State will do as they please and work on African time. This list they said will take 2 months - it was over a year. The wheels of government turns very slowly. You also need to realize that the planted tank hobby is miniscule and government doesn't care about it. If it wasn't for Jacqueline (Dep of Agri), @Dirk and a few others we would still be stuck without a list and a blanket ban on imports for a very long time.

This is not the 1st time something like this has happened. They tried to ban all koi and gold fish a few years ago as they are carp, recently they stopped all imports of corals for 6 weeks, they wanted all aquarium fish food to be registered with a reg number printed on the label under and act designated for agricultural products etc etc etc. but you knew all of this right?

Btw CARA stands for Conservation of Agricultural Resources Act.

 

Hi Henk and Sean,

Well let us not get too negative about this please.

I would like to add a few more bits of general information which would interest you. When we held the weeds workshop at the Department of Agriculture in August, the head of the port entry control also attended. He obviously expressed concern about how this was to be policed, and we agreed that workshops actually should be held for inspectors. I felt this was positive and again I said that I was prepared to become involved. What I can also say to you is that I am sure that plant importation inspectors in Germany for example will not be able to identify all 480 odd plant species that are on this list, this is going to be a tall task even for the experienced aquarist, so let us not only see doom and gloom.

Then Henk, the new list will allow you to import those plants that are on the list, so you will be able to import Anubias and Cryptocoryne as well as quite a few others. At least this is right now, I think this is a tremendously important and positive step, also for you, let's face it and we don't have to be negative about this surely.

The other things that you mentioned about the funny banning of odds and ends is quite correct, and also quite weird, but what has happened in this instance is that we worked together to try to solve the problem and I think we are almost there, so let us not loose heart.

Jaqualine Tsidada who played an important role in drawing up this list has moved to Environmental Affairs where she is to assist in the drawing up of CARA regulations. Those have been dragging on for years now as well, and she wants to do something about it, so good for her. The only hope that I have for the future in South Africa is the youth, that will forget about the past and look into the future and get on with it. Her last words to me were that she wants me to get involved in drawing up CARA regulations, so I don't see this so negatively.

I also want to indicate to you that during the drawing up of the list, we regularly referred to the Australian tools for assessing invasive risk and you can thank your lucky stars that we have not implemented those, because then we would never get a single plant into the country!

So, no, I do not think needs to be viewed so negatively.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Been sitting on the side - as somebody who will have no financial benefit from the increased list size or import permits (unless you count having a lighter wallet) how does this affect a big part of my hobby, other than being able to do more with more?


Should we not be reviewing "Any species on the South African black list are not allowed to be discussed in the context of keeping them in aquaria. TASA will endeavour to keep an updated black list on the site for reference." like rules and the (since we now have categories of blackness)
Freshwater Plant Blacklist

I'd love a more open forum that we can post pics of the things most of us have ... like sharing this flowering anubias



How / by when can we expect to see the changes on TASA?

Later Ferdie

 

Thread re-opened. Please can we keep the personal attacks, dick measuring contests and whatever other cr*p off this thread (and off this forum).

Ferdie, we will update the lists as the law changes.

 

hi all
if i may put in my 2c worth here and i dont mean to upset any one with my statement or draw flack this is just my opinion like it or ignore it thank u for your consideration
as a Herp Keeper im well aware of the impact of smuggling as smuggling has all ways been a big issue in the reptile industry probably 1/3's of the herp's in our country comes from smuggled stock (no im not saying they were all smuggled but the original linage was).
the upsides to smuggling is the person going through the effort to acquire the product generally is not some pleb off the street walking into his local pet store (chances are he will take care of the animal as generally the expenses on this is much higher and a specific need is catered for ) its not just shoved in the window as "customercandy"

the down side is often these animals are often poorly treated during the smuggling process and wild caught

in my opinion the Bl serves a very unique purpose it protects our environment from produce deemed threat the purpose of smuggling is so that those who understand the risk can still keep what they have a passion for" i will buy cherry shrimp if i find them some where, will i release them into the wild? No"as i understand the risks would some pleb off the street waliking into a shop selling them release them into the wild very likely (hence the bl)


so what it boils down to if i had a store i would not sell bl produce cause the world is full of idiot's but if one of my regular customers with a true passion for his hobby wanted something on that list i see no reason why i would not do my best to help him on a path where he might come right

i always say if a species is endangered due to habitat destruction and i have an opportunity to save a breeding pair of that species and breed it maybe some day that species will make it i know this is a selfish and narrow-minded approach but we all justify our actions in some or other fashion

so don't sell Bl stuff unless u selling to me :elefant:


Ps. Mods the cherry shrimp is merely an example if it needs to be deleted please don't remove the whole post

 

Thanks @Rory, but let me make my question clear ... is the law associated with list changing or is just the list changing. If I understand the current legislation (or at least how we are interpreting it - and this could be my problem) we do not allow talking / posting about blacklisted stuff since some clause says we might be liable and could be prosecuted, fair enough.

Yet, with the new list we now have several new classifications - so would we be allowed to post pics / talk about Alternanthera philoxeroides (a banned plant ) or only about 1,2 4 and in some provinces 5's? See the dilemma?

Later Ferdie