New plant blacklist

So I hear there has already been major transgression since the implementation of the new regulations and the Department of Agriculture has been made aware. The entire process is going to get one hell of a lot more restrictive pretty soon.... one or two idiots to spoil it for the rest of us...

 

I heard it was a cape town store, that is to blame.:listen:

 

No - was a wholesaler which sold the plants to various stores.

 

Spot the mistake.:withstupid:

 

Hi DewaldC,

Seeing that you are so clever, I will invite you next time around when I have to evaluate 485 plant species.

Then I invite you to plant that plant in your garden as an ornamental and to see if it will survive one single day outside of a very humid environment.

Dirk

 

I shall probably be too busy doing water changes. LOL

So the new blacklist isn't there to protect us against crooks selling terrarium plants as aquarium plants.

 

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, we will take the plant off the permitted list the next time we review it.

I can assure you that if you look at the list, the rest of the plants that the crooks are as selling terrarium are off the list. Don't come up with these blanket statements please, they are totally uncalled for.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

I really didn't mean to offend you.

 

Hi Dewald and others that may or may not be interested,

A couple of months ago, specifically on this thread, I received one ungrateful and insulting comment after the next and I informed the moderators of this forum, that under these circumstances, I see no reason why I should post on this forum if this is reaction I get. I put in a huge amount of effort into this plant list and into threads on this forum, but I get very little in return really, other than the pleasure of seeing that others make a success of their hobby. After the last set of interactions, I did not post for almost three months, you may or may not have noticed this, because I had to ask myself whether this was worth it. However, in the last couple of weeks I have started posting again. However, here we go again, comments and jabs being made at me, when this happens, I feel like going to look after my fishes and wishing all South African fish forums goodbye.

Dirk

 

Hi @Dirk. I for one would like to ask that you stay and educate us less knowledgeable fishkeepers. These stabbing comments and mocking you are the ones that need to step down. It's easy to sit on the sideline and throw a couple of words in the ring that has no positive impact on the hobby, trade or industry whatsoever.

I am sure this will not end as a pleasant thread and I plea to the moderators to step up and set things right. Prof Dirk has put aside endless amount of time to help steer the hobby in the right direction. So from myself being a Noob also compared to Dirk I would like to ask all the noobs and fellow fishkeepers to re think what the implications are from posting these snotty uncalled for responses to threads where you have no positive input whatsoever.

So from myself I would like to ask you @Dirk to please continue to share your knowledge with us who are greatful for your vast experince with fishkeeping.

 

I would second that. We need knowledgable people on the forum giving advice and help steer everything in the right direction

 

In retrospect i should have probably only pointed out the mistake.
I am really sorry.

 

This is absolutely shocking. As a newbie to all of this I am astounded at the lack of general knowledge regarding the black list. Such a massive threat too our environment which can be caused by invasive species and cause untold damage yet many of the LPS stores I have visited have no knowledge of this. And those who did could not provide me with more information. I am astounded by this, and saddened how can you educate someone when their is no awareness regarding what can happen when an invasive species enter our waters.

If I did not per chance stumble on this forum and into this thread I would have never known about the blacklist, this is a very sad state of affairs truly we have advertisements for gambling, drinking and driving, responsible debt management even for invasive plants species but nothing for this? *shakes head* But this does not surprise me since this is our government we are talking about.

When I was working in America for a year I remember going to a local petco with one of my employees and they had a whole section dedicated with materials pertaining to their invasive species and how to identify them and who to contact when you come across these species. And their website is amazing with all the information you need: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Home

 

@Infected Mushroom - What is your point? How many people know about the Animal and Fish Blacklists in South Africa? If you have an interest in a hobby nowadays, information is easy to come across. Google is a magnificent creation. The new Import Blacklist has just been finalized. The plants that pose the most threat are still banned, as they were on the previous black list. It is not a train smash. There has been a considerable amount of work done behind the scenes in getting these lists finalized and ready.

At the end of the day, it is your responsibility to act in a responsible manner. Don't flush plants down the toilet. Don't drain tank water into your drain. If you have aquatic plants and you want to get rid of them, chuck them in your garden, compost heap or burn them. It's up to each and every individual to act responsibly.

It is not a massive threat when you are responsible. Stores are becoming more and more clued up on these things. It is a slow process educating stores, but it is happening. So be patient, we will get there.

Everyone knocks the government on this matter, but it's not the governments fault that you dispose of plants irresponsibly.

 

Not everyone has access too the inter Sean J, I read a report somewhere that only 10.5% of all South Africans have a reliable internet connection. Also you need to be aware of an issues before you can research it, myself was totally unaware till I found this forum/thread that there even was something like a black list. It would be rather interesting if we created a thread showing how many people started this hobby only later too discover that we had a blacklist, I can safely say I was totally ignorant about it till now and this has been really informative.

I whole heartedly agree with you, but that is were education and awareness comes into it, if you do not make someone aware of an issue you simply cannot educate them on what is wrong or right. If someone decides to put a blacklisted fish into our water ways because they do not want to kill it unaware of what damage it might cause that is ignorance. But if you make a person aware of the damage it might cause you can educate him and show him the correct way of doing it.

Sean J Our new Constitution says that everyone has the right to a safe and healthy environment.And yes I am awarepeople also have a responsibility to protect and use the environment in a way that will protect it for us and our children. Government already has a framework in place for environmental management. For example each government departments have specific responsibilities to address different aspects to sustain our environment. The health department and municipalities take responsibility for hygiene, waste management, etc. While the department of the environment and tourism as well as agriculture and water deal with pollution and invasive species in our river.

The Bill of Rights, in Chapter 2 of the Constitution says the following:

Chapter 2 - Bill of Rights

 

Disclaimer ... this is a early morning post, I probably should not be doing this, but here goes.

For every person crying that he is a mushroom in our country, always being kept in the dark etc, somebody will have butter and a pan at the ready.

1) In JHB we actually had a campaign billboards, lamp posts etc (think it was last year) about invasive plants, one of them was something to the tune of "do you have invaders in your aquarium" at first I thought that campaign was xenophobia related .. ok might have been 2011.
2) I see we might get a NEW GAUTENG NATURE CONSERVATION LAW ... meaning that in some cases the LPS needs to have qualified staff ... still a bit thin would have liked this to extend to all LPS products not just the exotic stuff and they excluded LFS related products. (See minutes)
3) Yes the BL is a surprise to all, probably because you get your first tank as a gift, impulse buy or wanted to save that fish you caught in the local dam. In this is 1/2 the problem - we get to drive without a license so we have no way to get a fit for pet care stamp.
4) As for statistics 73.6% of all Statistics are Made Up


BTW side note ... http://www.sapettraders.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/MINUTES2012.pdf I see MASA even had somebody at the AGM ... should TASA also have had representation or was that a different MASA
PS next time you are at your LFS ask to see if they have a license to sell fish ... then again I read it on the web so it might not be accurate.

Later Ferdie

 

I would like to start by saying this is not targeted at any individuals, just my opinion on a rather heated subject.
Yes this is all a bit of a dilemma, ignorance of the law is not a defence, however I would safely bet that no one person knows every law. When I started in this hobby as my son wanted a tank I had no idea that there were such things as blacklisted plants and fish, and ugf’s were the shiznes. Yes there is the internet but have a look and see how many people have access, how many small and rural towns have library’s and how many pet store owners will ask you if you have a way to separate the 2 male Siamese fighters you just purchased
Yes we did research it but only after a few failed attempts and only then had we seen where we went wrong, even then I did not know about bl plants etc. google is not magic it’s a search tool and if you do not tell it what you are looking for it’s not going to come back with the correct answer
I have always argued that too many people and stores have the “it’s not my fault†attitude. In my opinion it is rather simple for those of us that do know about BL plants being sold should report the store, stores in turn should be held accountable for what they sell it is their chosen trade and profession and should educate themselves and also bear the responsibility that we as hobbyist are expected to do. You will not let the bank get away with someone else defrauding your account and them using the excuse oh we did not know, and keeping your money safe in our instatution is your responsibilty would you?

I would like to thank everyone for their opinions and input on this matter and also all the people behind the scenes putting in many hours to get this list where it is as it is a giant leap forward and providing clarity in some real murky waters.

 

100% Karele ...

A healthy exchange of ideas should not be misconstrued as an argument but I hear you that this subject gets some people heated. Public participation in any online activate makes all individuals a target .. I see this in the context of a paintball range, do not step on the range with a loaded gun if you are not will to take the odd ball. Keep within the rules of the forum but accept that every now and again you will take a shot.

FYI internet penetration http://www.internetworldstats.com/af/za.htm seems like we are heading for over 8.5million people with access ... considering that our hobby is considered a luxury item when looking at disposable income per capita I would hazard an estimate that if you have a store bought aquarium you have means and access to the internet somehow.

As for the internet .. I am not finding anything about the new plant list on Acts Online - South African Hypertext Legislation (just in case you want to start learn all the laws ;-) or even South Africa Government Online heck doing a google on site:gov.za Anubias (i.e. find the word Anubia(s) on any gov site ... ) hey I did get a hit on site:gov.za Cabomba but the latest search result was from Feb ...

So even if you had internet access and you are new to the hobby .. finding non-anecdotal content would be a challenge. (and yes I know google does not know everything)


Would any of us have entered into this hobby if we needed to get a license to do so - think theoretical learners license that could have had a section BL'ed plants and fish?

Later Ferdie

Anybody have a link to the official list ...

 

And this is why shops and wholesalers should be members of SAPTA

 

Oh just one small issue with the SAPTA thing - the upcoming plant training for shops is being presented by someone who's entire business revolves around plants - How impartial could he possibly be in the training?