PH - to change or not ?

Oh and one more point, it is alot easier to raise ph than to lower it.

 

true singularity. And usually high ph is coupled with hard water which is basically already buffered by its content which makes it a whole breakdown process just to get to the point where you are able to change the ph lower, then it still needs to be maintained there which becomes a mission in unstability. Thats why i recommended above to rather keep fish your water supply can cater for as its less stressful on the fish and less maintenance on the keeper

 

RO unit R1700, TBH my wife wont let me get away with that after spending so much money on the tank already (i'm not the most popular person in the house at the moment as it is)

or

RO water @ R1 a litre which would work me out to about R100 a water change - this might be the way to go then for a while

maybe i just need to resign myself to keeping malawis

 

Superpit I know the breeder you are talking about ....he is one of the best ,Derek and his late father are well known in the industry .....he also told me how high his ph etc is before and I too was amazed ,but did you ask what his ph is in his discus breeding tanks ?........onto the point ,if I was you I would firstly get rid of those rocks ,do a acid test before you put stones in or soak them .then I would do 50 percent water changes ,for a few days then begin cycling the tank .....then test the tanks ph

 

yea i think ill do this, pity those rocks look so good imo, will post a pic tonight

 

If its Derek from FFW you guys refer to, the last time I saw him he was using a deioniser unit to soften his water. If someone else, ignore me please. . .

 

Relborg...have a look at http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/water_chemistry/ro_di_filtration/index.shtml which covers DIY RO and Marco this also covers DI units but I have not seen any posts relating to the ph effect of running one, only its benefit in removing tds see http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/water_chemistry/ro_di_filtration/ro_di_info.shtml

I think the forum is excellent and no better place to get the real deal on water quality issues regarding Discus which I belive (dont shoot me) that if you get it right for discus that you can just about apply this to all fish, including angels...

I quote a chap called Eddie who has over 18000 posts in 10yrs you should checkout to see the work he has done whis is frankly awesome.. (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/member.php?u=8444)

"wild caught discus may prefer lower PH but most domestics have been grown out in water with a higher PH value. Lots of people keep discus in a PH close to 8 and their fish are HAPPY. I'd wait until you actually have a pair spawn to start thinking of adjusting your hardness. " ... I see PH in same light

I see this all of the time, the one critical observation is... change water weekly...ideally 50% and change with aged water ... playing with PH will probably only result in you getting it wrong ending up with a different PH to your tank... this results in "ph shock" which is extremely hard on any fish.

To age the water you only need to buy a plastic tank and leave it to stand for at least 24hrs, pass bubbles through to aerate and heat to tank temperature...

The benefits of this are large, firstly the PH in the water will settle as the disolved CO2 settles and becomes more like what is in your tank... this ensures the closest Ph to tankwater, it ensures the same water temp which also avoids shock when you do water changes and lastly it ensures that you have well aerated water that you intro...which apparently also has a detrimental effect as there is apparently some shock if the air content is lower in new water, it will also assist in keeping algae down by doing regular such water changes.

All of this is extremely good for your fish, again bearing in mind that if you skip regular weekly water changes your Nitrate count in your tank will increase and the Ph will actually start to come down however the disadvantages of poor water changing regimes are far greater than changing Ph !

There are some very good posts relating to successful fishkeeping at higher ph's and hard water... there are tons of posts evidencing both the success in keeping fish outside of ideal parameters (note i am completely recognising that these ideals are established) which are healthy and stress free... this DOES NOT apply to breeding please note, this is a totally different story as has already been pointed out.

 

Thanks for that informative post Milsky. Its been said somewhere in this thread that hardness is of more importance than ph. To adjust ph is absolutely unnesscessary, I agree. Yet with high ph, high KH and GH values are associated. I also agree that fish have become more tolerant towards all these values, discus, and Angels whom are not that sensitive to begin with. The only thing that concerns me is that if we say 'fish are adaptable' and an unknowing inexperienced hobbyist read that you can keep Discus/Angels at a ph of 8.3, not understanding that water parameters consist of more than ph, and they then think 'but then whats the issue, I'll just pop these fish in my water, cant be as difficult as people say. They will adapt.' I personally couldnt care what works for any experienced hobbyist. If it sends out the wrong message to the inexperienced ones who do not understand the full concept, the fish suffer for it. Lets face it, there is a whole lot of things in life and in fishkeeping you 'can' do, yet it doesnt mean its the best way of doing it.