Rule amendment

It's like a democracy where if you vote for the wrong party you'll get banned

 

Hi All

I think it would be good discussing BL things but not keeping them, trading etc.
I would like to see someone's opinion about some of the BL species though, like I
think shrimp are useless water cockroaches etc.
Also why you think they should remain blacklisted because of there behavior or impact.
This can be educational and broaden everyone knowledge about our sensitive environment.

But then again why talk about something you can't keep. Why expose the fact
that you have BL species and get yourself into trouble?

I like talking about the things I keep and showing them of to other enthusiast.

So I am in two minds about this.

Gerhard

 

Trading is definitely out. Discussion only.

 

With ALL respect said Big G.

Have you ever received a speeding fine? If so, YOU broke the law, and this goes for everyone, we are so stuck on the law side of FISH, that we forget about all the other things that we do, that break the law!!! If you smoke and gooi your stompie out the car window? The list is endless!

Please don’t take it as a fight.

Vez

 

I won't take it as a fight, but I know what you are saying, and I agree. I do indeed try my best to knowingly stick within the law on all counts. I have been done for speeding once before, and funnily enough, that was on a TASA outing. I didn't say I had never broke the law, and in fact have done some ppretty stupid things in the past, but I now try to abide to it as fully as I can.

So, I do not just concentrate on the fish side of the law, but on everything from not speeding, to not sticking my Butt out the window, to not copying that CD or DVD I borrowed, and so on.

As I said though, I guess its all down to most peoples own morality? I would consider hedging a bet that some of those people who knowingly keep BL species are also the same people with illegal downloads of music, and sit in the corner smoking Pot too?`

Regards
G!

 

thanks for taking it in the right light!

i know that its not the right thing to do, as i think the trade has a few holes in it, all i wish to get out of this site, is to know that if some dude gives me something, and i post it on TASA, i can get the help on the species, and not go on "holiday"

at the end of the day, we must take a look at the results of the votes, as this will show us what "we" want.

thats all from my side.

Vez

 

Ok... time for Hitman to step up to the interogation table...

I closed the Cherry shrimp thread. Did I agree on closing it? NO. Did I feel that this thread needed to be closed. NO. Was the thread reported, YES. Did the member who reported it even bother to read what the thread was about, I seriously doubt it.

Let me bring you members up to date...
A few weeks ago the mod team had a heated debate about whether we are going to interpret the rule:

Some mods interpreted "Keeping" meaning what do I need in order to keep this alive, some mods interpreted this as an overall keeping- meaning any discussion of BL species was therefore prohibited. The decision was then made to remove all BL posts, however no announcement of this was made to the members.

I agree 100% that discussion BL species should be allowed. However, we then need to agree that if you ask for a BL species, you will be banned. If you start slating the government for their lack of informing the publick blah blah humbug, you will be banned. The discussion of BL will be prohibitted within very strict boundaries, not only to protect the forum, but to protect you! And it YOU are going to be reporting a BL thread (that is in fact a legit thread) you will be banned to.

There, I've had my say... I've had my say behind the scenes with the other mods...

@Rory, please make your decision, make your announcement, and let's move on. This whole BL thing is getting really tiring and draining the forum.

Oh, and to the member who mentioned BL species in pics... I don't recall ANY mod EVER removing a picture of a tank that shows a BL species?? My tank has BL plants in... and I show it all the time. But because I am not selling it, surely I am within the rules of the forum??

 

I read such an interesting article last night, on why democracy is evil. What a coincidence! I wake up this morning to see a practical example in action. Two thirds vote for the wrong thing, because we want it. We will find all sorts of reasons to justify it, to ourselves and to our mates. This is a lovely example proving that we as a human race, is not capable of ruling ourselves. Without having read the article, my comments here will sound trivial, I know. So I will shut up now, I promise I will try! Let the people rule...

 

Ok guys, This is now turning into another thread of complaining...

Take it up via PM....

Please keep this on topic (and polite).... We are discussing whether or not we should allow a section for the discussion of BL species.

Regards
G!

 

First of all Tom, this is who I am, I will not back down from anything, and when someone thinks they are better than the rest, I will open my mouth.

I really do like spending time on TASA, as most can see, my tanks have improved since I found TASA. And I have even started to share my knowledge gained from TASA to some of my friends and family.

 

Sorry for going all out on this one Big G.

So back to the topic.

 

Ok, just remember to keep it off forum, and PM such issues direct to Mods.

Regards
G!

 

How about "we ... agree that if you knowingly ask for a BL species, you will be banned"?

Innocent until proven guilty?

I appreciate and understand that anything that can be "used against you in a court of law" must be avoided and I'd like to thank the mods for looking out for me in that way.

However, it sometimes comes across as the discipline of a very strict parent where the child doesn't understand the danger because she doesn't even know it exists - and then you end up with a pregnant teenager gee, how did that happen.

I would like to be educated so that I don't end up with BLs in my tank unintentionally.

 

I would 150% agree with zooms post.

Bud I see what you saying, but we not talking about the 10 commandments here. It's just a BL. Which I am all for might I add.

 

How can you say you are voting for the wrong thing? How would you define what is right and wrong? Sorry @Tom.K but I cant agree that we are voting for the wrong thing here there is no way to define what right or wrong is in this case

 

i personally have never understood the strictness of TASA and it's draconian attitude towards the blacklist...

how can an anonymous, online forum be held in any way liable or responsible for what people do in the privacy of their own homes. all that is needed on TASA is a list of the blacklisted species and a disclaimer saying that TASA in no ways supports or condones the swapping, trading, or procuring of any of the blacklisted species due to it being illegal, and besides, do you really think that members don't use TASA's PM functionality to swap, trade and buy illegal, blacklisted species, so in the exact opposite of what you are trying to achieve, TASA is still empowering people to break the law.

i think a section with a disclaimer is all that is required, and maybe as mentioned a rule stating if you publicly ask for blacklisted species knowing it is blacklisted you will be banned.

if members want to post pictures of their tanks for all to see containing blacklisted species, it is their responsibility not TASA's. i don't see how deleting the pic or the thread in anyway stops the member from having these in their tanks anyway. and of all the holier than thou members that condemn blacklisted species publicly, i bet more than a couple of them have at least one blacklisted species either knowingly or unknowingly and just don't post pictures of them. so what is not being able to discuss them helping at the end of the day...

there is nothing better than open discussion to inform and educate people. why is there a blacklist in the first place? just because a certain species is not on the current blacklist doesn't make it any less invasive than others that are, and non blacklisted species should be treated exactly the same as blacklisted ones when it comes to disposal, etc. nothing should ever be flushed down the toilet, the sink, the drains etc. whether it is blacklisted or not, this is a sure fire way to get species added to the blacklist, nevermind getting ones removed.. if the blacklist helps generate awareness like this then it is doing its job, but by not allowing people to discuss anything relating to the blacklist, you are keeping people ignorant and again achieving the exact opposite of what you set out to.

my 2c. keep the change

 

Bought some Rainbow cichlids from a LFS and was banned for a week. Gave them away on the end, but still cost me money.

 

Wow go to varsity to for a day and boom! Glad this has sparked some action and appreciate the mods and members giving their view points! Hopefully something good come of it then I can stop buying so much cheese...to go with all the whine

 

Ok, I wanna change my vote. After reading all the post more or less. I wanted to say alot of things like the speeding, ability to reasearch drug making, bom making etc on the net, but they have more or less been covered. I do however feel that If someone mentions somthing that is black listed and doesnt know, then they should be made aware of it and not ostracized. Is your license taken away because you speed??? Maybe once the users are made aware of they could possibly take up the conversation via email, hence all ties with TASA and the blacklisted species discussion is lost

 

I think ultimately we need to find a balance that works for TASA! What works for APSA or MASA may not necessarily work for us, and I think it's a bit unfair to say that what works for another forum will work here. The dynamics are just very different.

The mods have left this thread open purely because we need to find out where to take this BL.

I agree with everyone's comments thus far (who have contributed constructively), but to try and impliment all your guys suggestions into one "ruling" would be impossible.

Let me play completely open cards here: (Mod's please correct me if I am wrong)
The moderators agree that the discussion of BL species needs to be encouraged, or allowed in order to create a better awareness, and / or better understanding. We understand that "newbies" are going to cause trouble in certain instances, and generally speaking, the mod team have taken it lightly, or stepped easier with these guys. We take an extremely hard stance on someone who is fully aware of the blacklist, and tries to sell, or request.

So let's put a scenario / option together:

@Rory @Big G @Zebra Pleco @Gert Combrink
I'm putting this up on the forum for all to see

A Blacklist subforum is opened, with rules saying that this section is for the DISCUSSION of Blacklisted Species. No requesting. No Selling. No slating government officials for not doing their jobs. No naming/shaming LPS for keeping them. A SIMPLE Blacklist subforum where we may discuss the species to better understand them. ALL threads & Posts in this subforum need to be moderated before. (Members, this means a Mod will have to approve the thread/post before it get's displayed)
ALL members are kicked out TASA, and have to re-log in, and a splash screen comes up giving them the rules, the run down, and they have to agree to it. If they don't, they can't log in. Basically it'll be a disclaimer saying what WearsBunnySlippers advised earlier.
Members are notified that selling/requesting BL species will result in an immediete 1 month ban. Second problem will be permanent. We will obviously have to discuss amongst each other on the banning, because we will know who's new and is ignorant.

Reporting of BL threads can ONLY be accepted is the person is trying to sell/request/give away BL items.