So...who uses Excel? (Gluteraldehyde)

i'v been using it for a few months now and all i can really say is it works for killing BBA but as far a substitute for some kind of CO2 injection i cant say its doing wonders,so i will be finshing the last of it and not replacing for at least a while and see how it goes.

 

Think ill do the same. My plants are battling so if I dont see a big improvement after using it now ill stop as well.

 

@CharlieB as you can see from the link i posted on page 4 it is pretty toxic stuff.

 

rem that it is a carbon addition for plants. plants only take up carbon if theres a big enough light source.. so if ur adding excel and ur plants arent doing well that may mean that your light isnt enough.. dont go blasting your tank with light though.. just have enough

 

@Henk Hugo Thank you that was a good read! @shihr I have 18w in a 27 litre tank and I have only now just started to use excel so will just have to wait and see what happens. Today is only the 3rd day of using it.

 

Sorry for all the questions but was just thinking does this mean that when I have my hands in my tank fiddling with the scape etc that its actually poissonoss for me now?

 

I think thats being a little melodramatic. The only toxic effect i have noticed on myself was during my little experiment where i soaked a piece of pipe covered in BBA in a bowl over night. The next morning the entire house had this chemical smell to it and it triggered an asthma attack.

 

@Henk Hugo shesh dude thats hectic.. why did you soak a pipe this stuff its potent! i just take the object out and give the infested area a wipe with a small paintbrush soaked in excel. you can put this straight back into the tank it will die very soon. uses allot less excel. you get my pm???

 

Not really. was only a question and seeing as everyone is putting up articles on how toxic this stuff is i think it was a valid one too. Thanks again for the info tho, at least I understand the product a lot better now.

 

I wanted to see if it will actually burn/melt it off in 24 hours.... and it did!

 

LOL... yip this excel is a force to be seen, algae runs for hills when i pull it lol.

ok to put a better light on the excel subject. stated on the bottle it has properties that can "convert" feric iron fe+3 to the more used ferrous iron fe+2 witch plants use more readily and wont need to work so dam hard at trying to convert fe+3 into something easier for them to use..
also thanks to shihr and wbs it can be used as a preservative to your NPK mixes. so if you bought it its not a complete waste of your money. oh and its an excelent algae killer.
your guys thoughts??

 

Hi Guys,

I have missed this thread before somehow, but I have replied on APSA about Excel before and I will reply again here.

As far as I am concerned the use of glutaraldehyde in any aquarium is a complete disaster and is not only a hazard for the aquarium, but for the person that has the aquarium in which this chemical is used as well. I am actually surprised that this chemical has not been banned, but it has somehow slipped through the regulations but I am convinced that it will only be months, not even years, before this is banned completely.

Glutaraldehyde chemically consists of 5 carbon atoms as a straight carbon chain with what we in biochemical terms call an aldehyde group on both ends. There is absolutely no difference between these two groups at each end of the molecule with the single aldehyde group in formalin or formaldehyde. We use formaldehyde as a severe preservative of animal tissues and it is highly toxic, just look at wikipedia on this topic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde.

Now someone had found that glutaraldehyde and specifically a type that has formed a ring structure and is polymerized, polycycloglutaracetyl, apparently can kill algae but benefit aquatic plant growth and this is now sold in Excel Flourish. In dilute solution in an aquarium polycycloglutaracetyl, will break down to glutaraldehyde in no time. So this stuff is the same as glutaraldehyde and is highly toxic and a health hazard. It is not surprising at all that Henk got hayfever from it because it is highly irritating to inhale this stuff as it is TOXIC, finished and klaar!

You can read all sorts of iffy reports http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8801-Glutaraldehyde-in-Excel about it, folks dance around the toxicity issue and say that the aldehyde group on formalin and on glutaraldehyde is different, but as a professor of biochemistry I can tell you categorically that this is total and utter nonsense. Aldehydes, be they part of formalin (formaldelyde) or glutaraldehyde are highly toxic and carcinogenic, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde

So not only are you as a person exposed to this chemical if you breathe it in (I see many of you have done this, it is just as dangerous as breathing in formalin fumes) but your plants and your fishes are endangered by this. No where do I see any mention of the analysis of the liver or the kidneys of fishes in aquaria in which excel has been used, but these organs would have been pickled as far as I am concerned, totally destroyed.

Although you will see that it kills algae (algicidal) as mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde , and they claim it is not toxic, I cannot see the justification for using this chemical in aquaria, and I will defend my opinion against anyone claiming the opposite including the producers of excel. This stuff is hazardous, to the user and the aquarium and should not be used in aquaria under any circumstances whatsoever.

Kind regards,

Dirk Bellstedt

 

And there we have it guys!

 

Hi Henk and other who have participated on this thread,

There are many issues that we can discuss on TASA and about which we can have differences of opinion, but this issue is different, I view it to be my professional duty to warn users against this chemical as I know its toxicity and danger. I used glutaraldehyde in my studies as a student many years ago and we only opened the bottle this chemical was in, in a fume hood and with heavy rubber glooves. We were never allowed to pipette this fluid my mouth (such a pipette is a basically a graduate glass tube, which you can put into the fluid, suck it up to certain height or level, and then you close it with your finger and lift the fluid out in this way and put it into another container) and had to use a mechanical pipetting device as the potential danger of getting this into your mouth and your lungs and stomach were just far too high.

I want to see if I can put together some diagrams showing chemically what is reacting with what here. If you use Excel you SEE that it kills algae which we all know are pretty tough. What we do not see is the damage it does elsewhere (out of sight, out of mind?) and I convinced there is major damage that we do not see.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

just a question proff.. isnt excel diluted and very mild compared to the ones used in labs?

 

Yes Richard,

You are quite right that it is diluted, but the levels are very close to what is still viewed to be toxic. Its like saying, "OK, I know this is the lethal dose of cyanide, let me see if a 1/100 dose will kill me and you then drink the stuff to see what happens". It is also well known that it is the low levels of chemicals in our environment that are the ones that cause cancer.

You are all very welcome to ask me these sort of questions, and I will not attack you or something, I just think this is a very serious issue.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

@Henk Hugo

Hi I did not go through the whole thread so not sure if you mentioned it before. I just decided to stop using Excell but now I want to know what do your carbon supplement use as ingredients.
I would just like to see what @Dirk Bellstedt has to say about it.

Regards
Gerhard

 

I just dont understand how fish that are so sensitive to well.....just about everything can survive this then! Surely they should die instantly or at least within a few days? Also if it is so commonly known to be so dangerous why is Seachem allowed to get away with selling it? And how can something so toxic even help plants grow? what I wanna know is I know its the main active ingredient in excel but how much or what percentage is in the actual excel mixture and pls someone advise on the better alternatives. Eg how does the microlift I think Henk is selling work without this ingredient?

Please understand I am not arguing that this is toxic stuff but these are just some questions Im wondering about.

 

@Vis here is what it says on the website. I'll go dig for the MSDS sheet:

• Contains high quality peat extract
• Contains humic and fulvic acids
• Contains a blend of naturally occurring vegetative and spore-forming microorganisms
• Helps make iron, nitrogen and other nutrients more bioavailable

 

Strange that they give a guaranteed analysis on the All In One, but not the other products. Like Vis, I would also like to know how they arrive at the name "Bio Carbon", as nothing it says it contains has anything to do with carbon. I think? Then again, what does glutaraldehyde in Excel have to do with carbon. Prof, will you explain?